Leap Motion and Omni

tpapas1tpapas1 Posts: 10
edited August 2013 in Motion Controllers
I posted this question to the kickstarter.

How about sticking 3 Leap Motions around the ring of the Omni? would that allow 360o hand gestures?

Comments

  • Theoretically yes it would. You could of course do this your self but i think they cost around 70 bucks each. That is not a very low cost solution. Not to mention the software needed that would be able to utilize all 3 Leap Motions and translate that into games or other applications you are using. But to answer the question, yes you can do that.
    “Do not pray for an easy life, pray for the strength to endure a difficult one”

    ― Bruce Lee
  • RaoulRaoul Posts: 125
    Note that using multiple Leap Motion controllers on one PC is not possible at the moment. Apparently it was disabled for the public release.

    It is not publicly known if and when it will be activated again. But it was possible at one point (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd9O3YZ3d3c).
  • tpapas1tpapas1 Posts: 10
    thanks for your answers. I contacted leap about this with all the details you provided. will let you know their answer
  • ChairmanChairman Posts: 12
    Hi Tpapas,
    someone already came up with leap motion idea on KS comments and I had to stop him. But as the guys above said it is possible in a way....

    You would need at least dozen of leaps to have full 360° motion tracking of hands round you in the area where you can reach. But lets say you only want to detect you hands in front of you and sides partially. That is as you said 3x LEAP each for 70 USD giving you area only above the omni support ring and only limited height, width, lenght area.

    That means once you stretch your hands in distance the LEAPs would not see you anymore since they are just two low resolution cameras aiming upward from a box. Same goes for moving your hands too high (not sure how much but i guess 0.5 meters/roughtly 2 feets), around you (sides and back) and under the support ring or at its level for example if you play Skyrim and want to pick up something on table/ground level.

    Therefore it is way cheaper and simplier to have Razer Hydra or upcoming wireless solution of Hydra from Sixense (creator and manufacturer) which in wireless version might be more expensive but still not as much as 3x LEAP. There are also other systems like VR glove that goes from your shoulder and cover entire hand so it can give you body rotation and entire arm/hand position uncluding single fingers so it is pretty much as real.

    You know LEAP is not a bad device but only use for VR would be having one attached to ring so you have a VR keypad but again with some VR glove system even that would not be needed. Using it for regular actions on PC in front of monitor isn´t bad either but it is for short actions only (try holding hands straight in horizontal position for 10 minutes).
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  • RaoulRaoul Posts: 125
    @Chairman

    Very right about the range of the Leap. Three should be enough to cover 360° around the user, but vertical range is only about 2 feet. If you really wan't to go with this type of system you would be better of surrounding yourself with a couple of the new Kinect for Xbox One.

    Either way you're probably gonna have to develop the software to utilize it yourself, or spend a lot of time trying to mod it into existing games (if it's possible at all).

    The fully functional VR glove is the dream. But it would need to be available for a very reasonable price to have any chance of selling enough units to warrant games to start supporting it.

    The best available solution to me, seems using a stem unit from the upcoming Sixense Wireless for positional tracking. The Hydra is supported by a lot of demo's already, and is looking to become the standard for VR input. The stem should be able to provide the same positional input to games.

    For muscle detection I'm looking to use the Myo. This should allow hand and arm movement to be translated to key strokes, and thus integrate nicely into a variety of games and applications.

    But I would be very interested in any type of VR glove that can provide the same functionality. Maybe even provide some type of haptic feedback.

    Do you know of any VR gloves available that would be suitable? The only ones I have been able to find offer limited functionality and cost thousands of dollars.
  • ChairmanChairman Posts: 12
    There is one I have been speaking about but I have no idea on price.

    http://www.animazoo.com/content/igs-glove
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  • RaoulRaoul Posts: 125
    Had not seen that one before. It certainly seems a significant step up, as far as tracking goes, from any other model I've come across.

    But taking into account the components used, 12 tiny inertial and gyroscopic sensors with 30 or 60 Hz tracking. And the fact that they are selling this as an alternative to a traditional motion capture system. Leads me to believe you are looking at something that costs at least $2000 to $5000 per glove.

    Let's hope other markets will drive down the price of these components, like mobile phones did for the Oculus Rift. Because even if you're able to afford it at this point in time, there are no games that can utilize all this is capable of. Until this or something like it is available at a reasonable price.
  • tpapas1tpapas1 Posts: 10
    Chairman wrote:
    [....]You know LEAP is not a bad device but only use for VR would be having one attached to ring so you have a VR keypad but again with some VR glove system even that would not be needed. Using it for regular actions on PC in front of monitor isn´t bad either but it is for short actions only (try holding hands straight in horizontal position for 10 minutes).

    Chairman thanks for your input.

    I have 3 Leaps since yesterday. Of course so far I am learning to use 1 since the other 2 are not possible to collaborate , yet. I find it really easy and natural to use and I would really recommend it. Its not optimal experience , but it is going in the right way.

    It would be a peaty to ignore this remarkable device and all the advantages that it can confer. without holding anything you can operate the pc fully from a distance, move in 3d space, It can fully imitate touch screens.

    As far holding hands in the air, aren't other devices like hydra require us to do the same?

    Some yrs back I was operating my Wii (dolphin) emulator with the nunchucks which give or take are one and the same as hydra. I really am against cable connections between the vr joysticks after that. also I feel that a joystick is so passe. I mean 6 yrs+ after the wii and still use an identical analog-mini joystick for input method seems not a tech breakthrough.

    Of course I am not against the 1x sixense hydra 2 scenario :) and probably will go after it if after reviewing will appear to be an experience superior to leapmotion.

    I would like to help develop the 360o control using the 3 leaps. If not for the leap at least for the experience itself.

    Let me have your opinions.
  • RaoulRaoul Posts: 125
    @tpaspas1

    Out of curiosity what software are you looking to integrate your Leap 360° setup into?

    Are you building your own game world using an existing engine like Unity? Or are you looking to integrate it into an specific game or application?
  • tpapas1tpapas1 Posts: 10
    I would chose to create support for unity. Currently I don't have a full time schedule for this since I am pretty much full with work
  • RaoulRaoul Posts: 125
    This would certainly be the best fit seeing most VR demo's (and eventually full games) are made in Unity at the moment.

    But if you're lacking time to work on this I would suggest you check out Torque 3D (http://www.garagegames.com/products/torque-3d). Although slightly more complicated than Unity, it has templates for both Rift and Leap Motion support. And best of all it's open-source.
  • ChairmanChairman Posts: 12
    edited April 2014
    You know LEAP is not a bad device but only use for VR would be having one attached to ring so you have a VR keypad but again with some VR glove system even that would not be needed. Using it for regular actions on PC in front of monitor isn´t bad either but it is for short actions only (try holding hands straight in horizontal position for 10 minutes).

    Chairman thanks for your input.

    I have 3 Leaps since yesterday. Of course so far I am learning to use 1 since the other 2 are not possible to collaborate , yet. I find it really easy and natural to use and I would really recommend it. Its not optimal experience , but it is going in the right way.

    It would be a peaty to ignore this remarkable device and all the advantages that it can confer. without holding anything you can operate the pc fully from a distance, move in 3d space, It can fully imitate touch screens.

    As far holding hands in the air, aren't other devices like hydra require us to do the same?

    Some yrs back I was operating my Wii (dolphin) emulator with the nunchucks which give or take are one and the same as hydra. I really am against cable connections between the vr joysticks after that. also I feel that a joystick is so passe. I mean 6 yrs+ after the wii and still use an identical analog-mini joystick for input method seems not a tech breakthrough.

    Of course I am not against the 1x sixense hydra 2 scenario :) and probably will go after it if after reviewing will appear to be an experience superior to leapmotion.

    I would like to help develop the 360o control using the 3 leaps. If not for the leap at least for the experience itself.

    Let me have your opinions.
    Sorry I somehow lost password to forums and was to lazy to ask for new one...

    Hydra like devices require you to hold them but it doesn´t have to be in front of you. If you wanted aim up with leap you would have to get hands in front of you and bend wrist to aim up. Not very natural if you include small sensing area (relatively small). Also with new STEM you can imagine people playing MMO as wizard for eg. will not have hands all the time in front but most likely just by the body and change position only for using spells, attack or another action. Maybe I explain it on wrong example so sorry me for it.
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  • RaoulRaoul Posts: 125
    edited April 2014
    For those desperately looking for a motion tracking glove on a budget. At $499 this has been the cheapest I can find: http://www.metamotion.com/hardware/accelegloves.html



    Although at this price it is mainly aimed at gesture recognition, not absolute positional tracking.

    Personally I still believe detecting myoelectric signals from your arm is a better solution than trying to track the actual motion. The MYO armband is now also aimed at gesture recognition. But with a little more development I believe it could provide full tracking of your arm and hands in VR.
  • ChairmanChairman Posts: 12
    Yeah, the MYO at that point would be most likely best solution with STEM absolute tracking unless you want to use STEM controller or expensive glove (not that 2 MYOs are not expensive but still 200 bucks cheaper).
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