Tactical Haptics Reactive Grip

sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,069
edited April 2014 in Motion Controllers
The Reactive Grip from Tactical Haptics Kickstarter page is here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tacticalhaptics/reactive-griptm-touch-feedback-for-vr-and-video-ga

Early Birds going fast!

Community Manager at Virtuix

Comments

  • RaoulRaoul Posts: 125
    Backed the single controller. Do wonder why they decided to go for three sliding plates instead of the four that where featured on the prototype. I'm guessing it's to bring the size/weight down. Hopefully they will bring it back to four for the eventual consumer model.
  • sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,069
    I went for two - got to have that sword and shield combo for the inevitable Skyrim mod!

    Here is their clarification for the switch to a 3 x bar solution:

    "The change from 4 sliding contactor bars to 3 sliding contactor bars came from user feedback from the earlier four-contactor prototypes. Overwhelmingly, users felt that the four- contactor controller grip was too large to comfortably grasp. Users with medium to small hands would only have good contact on three of the four bars.
    By moving to a three bar design, the handle has a smaller and more comfortable cross section for grasping that keeps the user naturally aligned (and thumb pointed towards the front of controller). This also creates a larger, more consistent contact against the palm and fingerpads for stronger touch feedback sensation (when desired).
    Strong left/right torques can still be provided by moving the two front sliding contactor bars in opposition, while front/back torques (like gun kick back) are given by moving the front two sliding contactor bars up together and the back sliding contactor against the palm down. Other torque directions are blended between these two conditions.
    Once users tried our new 3-sided design they were hooked and didn’t want to go back (we gave demos with the device at the Silicon Valley VR meetup a few weeks back which you can see in the footage of Cymatic Bruce, Karl Krantz, Amir Ruben in our Kickstarter video)."
    Community Manager at Virtuix
  • More wires to hang from my ceiling!
  • RaoulRaoul Posts: 125
    edited November 2013
    More wires to hang from my ceiling!

    Not necessarily, they have not specified but there is a good chance it could be powered through USB. In that case you can just run a single USB cable with a small hub for both the Reactive Grip and the Rift.

    Personally I am hoping a wireless package for the Rift comes through at a reasonable price. Hendesehane Nefes currently seems like a good candidate: http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/1prrtb/wireless_oculus_rift_latency_test/

    They claim it only adds 1.5 ms total latency through both a wireless USB and HDMI link.
    Problem solved. :D
  • RaoulRaoul Posts: 125
    @Ben

    Their explanation for the switch to a three bar design makes sense at the current state of technology available to them. But I still think having more bars will increase the range of simulated motion.

    Cymatic Bruce has tried both controllers so I'll try to ask him about it if he ever gets back to live streaming on Twitch.
  • Raoul wrote:
    Not necessarily, they have not specified but there is a good chance it could be powered through USB. In that case you can just run a single USB cable with a small hub for both the Reactive Grip and the Rift.

    So cables coming from a hub taped to my rift? :) How would that work? I think it'd be OK from the ceiling, to be honest with you. One or 2 more cables on top of the 3 I'm already dangling won't kill me.
    Personally I am hoping a wireless package for the Rift comes through at a reasonable price. Hendesehane Nefes currently seems like a good candidate: They claim it only adds 1.5 ms total latency through both a wireless USB and HDMI link.
    Problem solved. :D

    Well... we'll see. That's for the DK1, what about DK2 which has higher resolution? Not to mention what they've done with sensor fusion. If Carmack thinks we need thunderbolt, we probably need thunderbolt.
  • RaoulRaoul Posts: 125
    So cables coming from a hub taped to my rift? :) How would that work? I think it'd be OK from the ceiling, to be honest with you. One or 2 more cables on top of the 3 I'm already dangling won't kill me.

    At the moment I am using this (http://eng.aten.eu/products/productItem.php?model_no=UE2120H) for both USB and power to my Rift. Have it packed in a small backpack along with the Rift control box. So I only have two cables (HDMI and USB) hanging from the ceiling, or in my case a closet. Found this to be much easier/safer to use, and allows me to disconnect the Rift easily if I want to play sitting at my desk.
    Well... we'll see. That's for the DK1, what about DK2 which has higher resolution? Not to mention what they've done with sensor fusion. If Carmack thinks we need thunderbolt, we probably need thunderbolt.

    Hendesehane has said they will allow you to choose your own wireless link and support resolutions up to 1440p/60Hz. And allow you to upgrade the wireless link in the future as technology develops. So that will likely cover the resolution DK2 or the consumer model launches with.

    Don't see how sensor fusion will cause a problem, since it would be silly using anything other than USB for sensor data because of compatibility with current hardware.

    Carmack's comment about thunderbolt or displayport is regarding a much later version of the Rift that runs Android stand alone on a SoC. By that time HDMI is likely to have caught up and support 4K.
  • Interesting. I'm surprised Carmack / OVR isn't talking more about this.
  • RaoulRaoul Posts: 125
    Talking more about wireless, stand alone Rift or haptics? Because we strayed off topic a bit. :)
  • sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,069
    Raoul wrote:
    Talking more about wireless, stand alone Rift or haptics? Because we strayed off topic a bit. :)

    640px-Pope_Benedict_XVI_Blessing.jpg

    Forgiven.
    Community Manager at Virtuix
  • RaoulRaoul Posts: 125
    sutekiB wrote:
    Forgiven.

    Thank you sir. :lol:

    To bring things back on topic, was thinking about how else you could utilize the haptic technology in the Reactive Grip. What occurred to me is that although we all want the Reactive Glove to happen, it is really hard to do. What could be more attainable is the Reactive Shoe.

    Think of a Reebok Pump on steroids, where inflation and/or actuators provide feedback on different parts of your foot. It could be used to convey terrain, physical boundaries and influence your sense of balance.

    At the moment it would be too heavy and expensive to make. But if wearable technology takes off it could be attainable in the next few years.
  • sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,069
    Good thinking, as you say maybe in a few years.
    Convey terrain - you don't feel much through your shoes IRL. If your character's walking barefoot then yes.
    Physical boundaries - do you mean stubbing your toe/kicking a door? Or standing at the edge of a cliff/platform with your toes overhanging? I didn't find myself missing/wanting that but it sounds cool.
    Influencing sense of balance - I'm guessing you mean to help simulate swaying, as on a boat or train. Interesting idea, would that be enough to trick your senses with the Rift on? I guess it could. Might unbalance a few people (I suppose that's the point, and better than sending electricity through your head!)

    What I really wanted to feel through my feet was vibration when landing from a height. Should be easy to fix.

    I would expect the Reactive Grip will be the last big VR peripheral to be successfully funded this year. A lot of us are running out of money. Looking ahead, I believe we'll see another attempt at a vest. The ARAIG failed I think because it was too expensive and bulky, but there will be a demand for something similar. I died a couple of times in TF2 because I was shot at from behind and if I could have felt the impacts I would have been able to take appropriate action. It has to be light, cheap, wireless and comfortable.
    Community Manager at Virtuix
  • sutekiB wrote:
    A lot of us are running out of money. Looking ahead, I believe we'll see another attempt at a vest. The ARAIG failed I think because it was too expensive and bulky, but there will be a demand for something similar. I died a couple of times in TF2 because I was shot at from behind and if I could have felt the impacts I would have been able to take appropriate action. It has to be light, cheap, wireless and comfortable.


    I completely agree with you there sutekiB. When the ARAIG kickstarter launched my initial look at it was "Oh, this is really cool. Imagine if everyone had this accessory... VR would be that much more competitive." then I looked at the prices they were asking and immediately felt that they were going to miss their mark. It wasn't the technology behind it (because let's face it... they did an amazing job!) but I think that it was partly their marketing for it. If it hadn't of been for these forums, I probably never would've heard of it. Granted, their target audience (mostly hardcore gamers from what I could gather) probably have accounts on various forums that might give the ARAIG more notice, but it also seemed like they weren't getting in touch with developers* as much as say... Virtuix did. There did seem to be a guarantee that game creators would even offer any support for it, with that in mind making a $1,000 investment for something that might never even get much support (if any) for the game that you really want to use with it doesn't make much sense.


    *I say this, but please correct me if I'm wrong. I just can't remember anything on their kickstarter page about trying to really work anything out with developers.
    supermansig.png
    Props go to Plixity for the sig.
  • RaoulRaoul Posts: 125
    @sutekiB

    Subtle differences in terrain can't really be felt with shoes on. But I was thinking more about simulating the feel of sand, gravel, sharp rocks and others that impact the way we walk. Physical boundaries can be any of your examples. But also as subtle as feeling the curb of a side walk or steps on a staircase.

    Effecting balance can be used to convey incline and motion like you mentioned. For me it is one of the major senses missing in VR and I believe it would really add to immersion. Although the haptic sensations on your feet would have to be pretty subtle to be convincing. Sending electricity through you head to effect the inner ear is Palmer Lucky's way of achieving this. But even he believes it will be at least a decade before he can actually incorporate that into the Rift.

    Haptic vest seems like the next logical step for a major VR peripheral. But personally I would rather be surrounded by three Airreal cannons shooting vortexes at me to simulate bullets than to strap on a haptic vest. Just don't think at the moment a vest can really be comfortable enough to wear while running around in VR.
  • RaoulRaoul Posts: 125
    SuprM4n wrote:
    *I say this, but please correct me if I'm wrong. I just can't remember anything on their kickstarter page about trying to really work anything out with developers.

    They said they would make their SDK freely available to developers, nothing much beyond that. Certainly did not engage the community like Virtuix or Tactical Haptics has.

    But there are ways of triggering haptic feedback through other means than direct integration by developers. Saw a video a while back of a Battlefield 3 simulator that actually fired paintballs at the player. They used software that detected the visual cues used on screen to trigger the guns. Although for VR these type of visual cues are often not used so direct integration into the game would be required.
  • sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,069
    edited April 2014
    While I was at the STEM backers meeting hosted by Sixense I at last got to try the Reactive Grip. It was everything I hoped it would be. Here's the video of me using it and desperately trying to describe what it feels like:

    Community Manager at Virtuix
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