What kind of weapon you want to use with omni?

Hello! Please tell us what weapon you want to use with omni?

Comments

  • NikoNiko Posts: 2
    meaning, which controller will be paired with Omni?
  • sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,045
    Hey @Niko, welcome to the forum!

    The best controller depends on the game and VR headset you're using. You can play anything with the Xbox wireless gamepad, but this is inferior to the Steam Controller IMO, which I recommend for legacy games. I have only tested the Steam Controller with games on Steam, and with the HTC Vive.

    The best controllers for the Vive are its included Vive wands, but these only work for native VR games (and not all of them yet). For the Oculus Rift, the best controllers would be the Touch, which are similar to the Vive wands, but these are not yet available. For a legacy game that has shooting mechanics, I'd recommend a Cabela Top Shot Elite, which works like an Xbox gamepad, but is shaped like a gun, which enhances immersion.

    So in summary, any of these work with the Omni, but my preferred setup based on game type is:

    Native VR Game, HTC Vive: Vive wands
    Native VR Game, Oculus Rift: Oculus Touch

    Legacy Game, Either Headset, Shooter: Cabela Top Shot Elite
    Legacy Game, Either Headset, Non-shooter: Steam Controller

    I hope that helps :)

    Community Manager at Virtuix
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    I cant wait until StrikerVR releases there gun
  • GreyAcumenGreyAcumen Posts: 308
    personally, I find all these vr gun controllers really limited in creativity. If you're in a game that doesn't use guns, it makes no sense. A lot of vr games don't even focus on shooting, and even in FPS games, you frequently have some sort of melee option.
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    umm.. OK, well ya, I agree with you I guess. Though I never actually even considered using a gun controller for anything other than a FPS game where you actually have a gun and are shooting ****. Same way I would not use a HOTAS to play a driving SIM or a wheel and peddles to play an plat-former. You need the right tool for the job. For a pure melee game I would want the controller to be... well guess the Vive controllers as they are are pretty good for that, but something balanced more like a sword would be pretty cool.

    I want a close as possible physical representation to what is in the game, in my hands.

    You are correct that most FPS games do generally have some melee option but I would rather have the controller resemble what I am using the most in a game. Or perhaps Actually need to switch between a gun and a sword! not sure how the holstering would work and it would make things more difficult but quite a bit more realistic.
  • GreyAcumenGreyAcumen Posts: 308
    edited May 2016
    yeah, but when the game switches, it's not like you have a gigantic gamepad vending machine that puts the appropriate controller in your hand for the in-game situation. As I said already, even in FPS games where shooting is the standard, it's rarely the only one you use, and even if you're switching between different guns, most of the guns have different shapes and weights, so it's still not going to match up.

    The way I see it, using a gun controller is like saying; "As long as I'm playing this game, I will only be shooting things."

    The steering wheel at least works for driving games because most driving games are ONLY driving, but imagine playing GTA with just the steering wheel. How many FPS games are there in which you only shoot and nothing else? Even Duke Nukem has you kicking things, and quake has an axe, and HL2 has a crowbar and also has you picking up items and moving them around, as well as driving and even a cranegame situation. I'm just trying to understand how you resolve those situations mentally.

    I watched @sutekiB 's videos on GTA, and it just seemed so awkward to keep putting that gun thing he had in an out of his jacket when he switched to a weapon. I'm still not certain if that was purely roleplay or if that was just the best option he had for dealing with picking controllers up after putting them down.
  • sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,045
    I agree with your points @GreyAcumen. Though getting the gun out of my jacket was quite fun, keeping it in there was a little awkward. However, in VR I'd argue this is not always a bad thing. Sometimes being uncomfortable can add to the realism, and thereby to enjoyment. Another example would be getting out of breath. We'd all like to be super fit and never get tired, but having to stop and take a few deep breaths adds to the feeling that you did just run from A to B; and because you worked for it (whatever it was - reaching a location or evading a predator) the satisfaction is sweeter.

    It was partly for role-play, partly experimentation, and partly as you say - the difficulty of switching controllers without removing the VR headset (not that it's difficult, but you break immersion when doing this). I would like to try a handgun controller kept in holster. That might solve the awkwardness of carrying it but maintain the fun of reaching for it in this realistic manner. I'm sure it will be possible to switch between this, hands-free, and holding 2 x haptic feedback devices without removing the VR headset, with a little tweaking to the form factor.

    You are right that using a gun controller to wield a crowbar in Half Life 2 is hard to resolve mentally. I did not like that when I tried it. This is the reason I was (and still am) so excited for Tactical Haptics' Reactive Grip. I am glad they haven't gone away. It solves the problem of needing to switch between a multitude of virtual implements without entirely compromising convincing sensation. Even so, I don't believe motion controls with integrated haptics should entirely take the place of dedicated peripherals - especially once VR gloves or optical hand tracking reaches critical mass. Then I will play a game that can track my hands and supports a handgun controller, so I can live out my fantasies of being a bad-ass crime fighter.

    image
    Community Manager at Virtuix
  • GreyAcumenGreyAcumen Posts: 308
    I'm still not sold on the reactive grips. It looks like you have to choose between gripping something along the handle, or using the controls on top I can't figure out at all how you're supposed to do both, but I suppose maybe it's expected to switch back and forth? I'm actually a bigger fan of the direction things are going with the dexmo F2, except I feel like it's not going far enough. Extend the locking to full arms, (they could easily be bolted onto the side posts of the omni harness) and you could simulate pretty much everything and anything just by locking the joints at the proper range.
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    But @GreyAcumen why would you want a controller that only comes close to any of the in game guns, melee weapons when you could have a controller that comes pretty damn close to most of the weapons most of the time?

    HL2, GTA 5, FarCry 3 and 4 not to mention the TraVR games and Omni Arean are just a few games that I can not wait to play and all of them your using a gun or gun type thing almost the entire time. I would rather very immersed 90% or the time than half immersed 100% of the time.

    Now for Skyrim I would never even think of using a gun controler i would want a staff or wand or sword or whatever my char was using.


    On a somewhat related note check this out

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4j2bgu/gta_v_with_vive_controllersteleport_to_move/

    I really hope this becomes a thing. Motion controles + the Omni for GTA 5 would be bad ass! Actually @GreyAcumen going back to another thread we had about room scale games. This is *NOT* a game i want to be teleporting around in. However its perfect for the Omni!
  • GreyAcumenGreyAcumen Posts: 308
    edited May 2016
    @xxann5 - there are two parts to my argument.
    For the immersion itself, think about a shower; would you rather have to take a cool shower, or would you rather take a warm shower where you suddenly get blasted with icy water at random intervals? Think about FPS? Would you rather have 60FPS for the entire game, or would you rather have 120FPS but you'll get random spikes down to 15FPS? The same logic applies to the Omni, it's technically less immersive than using room scale to play a game where you only move around a flat level area, but once you have to teleport, your immersion takes a HEAVY hit, and it's a constant back and forth between being immersed and being broken out of that immersion. The Omni trades that off by having a small, but consistent hit to immersion levels that can be forgotten about because they don't change. Consistency is critical to an experience.

    Now for the control method itself? My argument is that if the control scheme I mention is set up right, (obviously refinement and "resolution" would increase over time) your hands would actually stop when you are holding the in game weapon in your hand, and you would be able to feel its weight (by having the arm joints provide the appropriate pulling force downwards), and use your fingers to approximate the contours of its in game shape. By using object collision detection in the game, and locking of the finger joints accordingly, it would keep your fingers from passing through. By releasing that lock at the right intervals you could even simulate the pull of a trigger, and with each hand having resistance, you could actually have the shape of the gun in your hands match up. As opposed to a physical gun controller, that would only be able to approximate that it has a trigger.

    My main concern though is that VR is still in its infancy, and one thing is already becoming clear is that FPS is not really THE direction for VR to head.(even though it seemed obvious before) Every game you mentioned besides TRAVR is Non-natively VR, most current VR games specifically avoid using a "gun" even the Budget Cuts game looks to have you throwing stuff and manipulating small objects as often or more than you ever hold a trigger based gun option. I get that you're looking at the guns as being like a steering wheel peripheral, where it's only used for specific games that have you doing specific tasks, but before I look into specialty controllers, I want to have a standard VR controller setup that I'm actually satisfied with. What the Vive and Oculus have for the hand controllers are okay, but it still falls short to me.
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    Your analogies are flawed. For example in the FPS analogy you are equating 15FPS to using a controller that does not match what's in use in game. By that logic your analogy would be more accurate ssaying that you would be playing a game at a content 15 FPS, not 60, or would you rather play at 120 FPS and then occasionally drop to 15 FPS. Well I would pick the latter all day long

    As for *THE* direction VR is going in.... why does it have to be one direction? Why would you ever think it would only go in one direction. Now, currently you are correct there are no VR FPS games, but perhaps thats because there is no good method for locomotion. ;)
  • GreyAcumenGreyAcumen Posts: 308
    I can't make any sense out of your 3rd sentence.
  • if you have lv10 omni weapon you can just upgrade your current weapon no matter what lv to omni with it.
  • Ne0Ne0 Posts: 2
    VR Gloves, preferably with inflatable bladder instead of vibration feedback.
    https://www.engadget.com/2015/04/27/hands-omni-vr-glove/
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