The resumption of sales Virtuix Omni Package

Today I tried to buy Virtuix Omni Package, but there was no option to buy it. Please answer when sales resume?

Comments

  • Hi @Romanov! We've decided to halt sales of the Omni until we ship our large backlog of pre-ordered and Kickstarter units. This will take several months and we'll provide updates along the way. Here's a link to subscribe to our newsletter for these updates: http://www.virtuix.com/subscribe/

    We'll be sure to announce when sales resume in a future newsletter.
  • sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,059
    I think this is a good idea. As the orders are fulfilled I expect there'll be a sharp increase in awareness and appreciation of the Omni's merits. With that, there could be a surge in pre-orders. Each of those pre-orders would come with a wait of several months attached as a starting point. It's a different situation now - I think a lot of people don't mind waiting after they place a pre-order if the product is still in development. Once it's started shipping though, I think this could be quite frustrating, especially for people who are new to VR. In practice it doesn't really affect anyone, you just have to be extra quick to place your order when they do eventually resume taking orders - it might therefore be slightly more of a lottery, but it'll be less inconvenient for customers going forward, as they won't have that money inaccessible in the meantime. Kudos to Virtuix for switching to this approach!
    Community Manager at Virtuix
  • The biggest frustration I've seen is the constant revision of the expected shipping delivery dates. Once Virtuix stabilizes their shipping procedures over the next few months they need to make sure to track their turnaround time in order to provide an accurate conservative estimate for when a pre-order can actually be expected to arrive. As long as that estimate doesn't keep getting pushed back, then I'm fairly confident that people will take the pre-order and get in line as early as they can.
  • is this something I should be concerned about. I was already thinking about canceling and ordering http://www.vuetechnologie.com/product/vue-vr-treadmill/ plz talk me out of it I want the Omni but this move seems odd to me.
  • GreyAcumenGreyAcumen Posts: 308
    edited October 2016
    @Cidpliskit - I can talk you out of the Vue in one simple step, and I'll throw in an extra freebie:
    Do you see those cables? Now what happens to those cables when you turn around 3 times? It's one thing for cables to get twisted, but this Vue thing would actively wrap the cables around the center support post. Then look at the clearance that thing needs above the player. Even if that guy is only 5 feet tall, you can only set this up in a room with a ceiling clearance of 10 feet minimum, maybe even 12 feet (3-4 meters)

    Also, the Vue is only available for Pre-order as well. I can't find anywhere on the site that gives any kind of estimate as when to expect this thing to ship. Virtuix Omni should begin its first consumer shipments in the next month.
  • Ur right i cant see that wire working at all. It just seems like odd business practice to stop taking orders if they are selling so many that they cant keep up. I would think that they would start production at a second factory instead of stop taking orders just worries me.
  • @Cidpliskit - I think you've been playing too many tower defense/RTS games. Opening a factory requires even MORE negotiations/contracts/quality control/MONEY and there's a minimum amount of time they need to stay open, WITH all the product they make getting sold, in order to actually make a product.
    So the general rule is that the only time you open a second factory is when the number of orders coming in are actually DOUBLE what your first factory is capable of outputting at FULL production. Right now, Virtuix's first factory has only JUST gotten established and is only JUST STARTING production. They are nowhere NEAR full production level, and while the pre-orders are up in the 20k range, they have been building over the course of 5 years, so really only about 4k per year. The first factory is estimated to be capable of at least 1k per month, so it really shouldn't have all that much trouble catching up. The only reason there are so many backorders is because up until now, production was ZERO.
    Your logic only works for a company already at full production and unable to keep up. If anything, Virtuix is likely shutting down their backorders because they are switching from a "you are buying with the knowledge that this product is not available and will wait however long it takes" in order to establish a "the estimated wait time for your place in line and location is" which is a difficult kind of adjustment to make to a website that is actively being used. Better to shut it down so that no one loses an order while the changeover happens.
  • sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,059
    @Cidpliskit Please do not throw away your money on anything by Vue VR. They have ripped most of their website text directly from Virtuix's site. Even their shoe size chart is copied - they've just airbrushed 'Omni' and replaced their name at the top (thus the mis-matched font). They even did the same with the pre-order banner in their videos!
    image
    image

    However painful the waiting is, I recommend holding on until Virtuix resumes accepting orders.
    Community Manager at Virtuix
  • Ty i guess im just worrying to much
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    @GreyAcumen ; you and I don't always see eye to eye but....

    Do you see those cables? Now what happens to those cables when you turn around 3 times?


    EXACTLY. This was my biggest issue with CatVR. without a built-in slip ring that overhead support will not work. Its one thing to have a cable twist around its another thing to have it twist around something else.

    HA! @sutekiB I noticed that shoe chart as well.

    That entire site gave me a good laugh.
  • Is it me or does this not really solve the problem, but puts it off to a later date?
    When you bring the sales system back online, there will still be a backlog of customers chomping at the bit - to order, so instead of a slowly building backlog, which you keep working through, you will clear your backlog only to find that you swithch the sales back on and... now have a completely new one that just forms instantly... so, you are back to square one?

    I'm not complaining... but does it really solve anything?
    People in the slow backlog will have to wait just as long as when they order when sales re-open, except that those who are quick might jump the queue a bit.

    I understand your problem that customers will get frustrated.
    You could pre-empt people getting restless by announcing that all new orders will take 1 year to be delivered.

    (In my job, we give maximum wait times and we have found that people tend to prepare for the long wait. If we complete before the deadline, the customers are delighted.)
  • Also... re: CatVR...If you are following the VR feeds, you will notice that in 2-3 years, we should have good quality wireless VR headsets, so cables are not going to be an issue. This is worrying, as one of our unique sales points is lost.
  • GreyAcumenGreyAcumen Posts: 308
    edited November 2016
    @Wilfman - What I think people will find is that by the time a wireless HMD can provide even the minimum quality for a pleasant VR experience, you will have upgrades made to WIRED HMD that make them a much better option. That's not even getting into the limited battery life of a wireless HMD.
    The next step in HMDs is to increase the resolution up to at LEAST 1080p per eye, preferably 2k, and to hit 120fps miminum.
    The step after that is to incorporate curved screens around each eye so we have better peripheral vision (essentially widescreen)
    The step after that (or really anywhere in the middle) is to include weighted gyroscopes that will turn in order to give force feedback.
    Eyetracking? I've heard PSVR has implemented this, but I'm not sure what benefits this would actually bring.
    Increased pixel dimensions, faster refresh rates both put higher demands on the bitrate of whatever wireless signal is being used, which in turn results in faster battery drain. Actual physical movement also puts a huge drain on the battery. Unless you're expecting people to wear a battery backpack, it's going to be at closer to 10-20 years before all of those features are fit into a wireless package, and that's just for having a working prototype, and not even getting into a version ready and priced for consumers.

    Consider this; Do you think you could convince any dedicated PC gamer to switch over to a wireless mouse?
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    @Wilfman I think the reasoning behind taking down the ability to buy an Omni is more for the customers benefit then Virtuix's. People jump to conclusions and don't read fine print, even if that fine print is large and in there face. I could see people noticing that backers are getting there Omni's and then go and order and Omni expecting it to ship in the next week or two.

    I agree with @GreyAcumen about wireless HMD's unless there is some kind of huge technological breakthrough I don't think we will be seeing wireless any time soon. Its the same reasion I am not really all that exited about mobile VR. People argue that in a couple years processes will be smaller and faster and will be powerful enough to give the same experience as desktop VR. Well they may not be wrong but there acting as those desktop's will not also get more powerful. Large desktops will always be more powerful than mobile just from the fact that they can use more power and take up more room.

    Please don't get me wrong, i would LOVE to have a functional wireless HMD or something as powerfull as my desktop in a little one pound belt or something. Its just not going to happen anytime soon.

    However for the sake of argument lets say I am full of ****, would not be the first time( :p ) and your right and the second gen HMD's with 2K per eye with eye tracking comes out in 2 to 3 years and does have wireless that works flawlessly (again I really hope your right by the way). I have, we all have, waited long enough. I want to run around in VR NOW damnit! :)

  • DanteMDanteM Posts: 212
    edited November 2016
    Eyetracking is already a thing in HMD's like the FOVE. The concept of eye tracking is cool but not game changing it would be nice to an extent but I foresee more issues than benefits. What I really wanna see is a headset like the Vive with curved screens or multi seemless screens that form a ( to give us a sense of Peripheral vision. Toss in better resolution to help erase that screen door effect in some games and bam you're set for Hi-Def VR then.
  • Hi guys. Thx for replies. I wasn't complaining, but just was interested in your comments. I'm looking forward to the next few years, as it seems things are becoming much more interesting in VR. With my order number near 9000, I think I will have my Omni sometime in the summer 2017. (before is better, but we've waited this long...) Can't wait to run in Skyrim SE and others.
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    No way @DanteM eye tracking is one of, if not the most, important breakthroughs that needs to happen. With really good eye tracking foveated rendering can be a thing. This will drastically drop hardware requirements to be on par with or in some cases even less then non-VR gaming. Not everyone has a 2K$ computer so in order for VR to really take off they need to drop the minimum requirements so its more accessible to the masses. As some added benefits you can get with eye tracking are dynamic focus, NPC's that better respond to your actions. Also potentially interface interaction based on where you look, though I am not sure how exited i am about that.

    Curved displays don't really buy you much and require the optics to be ridiculously more complicated, adding to the cost. I don't foresee consumer HMD's with curved displays anytime soon. I think HMD's with multiple displays even less likely as they really increase the cost weight and complexity. I agree that an FOV of 150 or even 180 would be outstanding, but I don't see that happening for gen2, perhaps 120 with a proper 2K display. I predict both Valve/HTC and Oculus/Facebook will focus on getting the cost down and getting the hardware requirements down. I also think that if, and that's a BIG IF, foveated rendering works as good as people are hopping and it cuts the video throughput requirements enough than we may even see wireless HMD's in Gen2. Though I am not holding my breath for that one.
  • @xxann5 - the foveated rendering was an interesting concept, but I'm not sure the blur style (which is the only one I found even remotely acceptable) will be able to reduce hardware requirements far enough to make a noticeable impact on hardware requirements (you'd have to show me some hard numbers on that, and I'd need to see at least a 25% efficiency gain)
    As for NPCs responding to you better, I don't think I would want NPCs responding to me targeting them with my eyes, unless my head is oriented at them. However I do think it would make actions like nodding or shaking your head in a conversation easier to perform, since it would be able to recognize that your focus is still on a specific NPC, and then track your head movement as the motion, rather than as a change in focus. That I absolutely approve of, because it would allow things like the Gordon Freeman immersion, while still allowing some degree of simple conversation to take place. I don't like FPS that have a constant monolog from the player character, because it overrides those things that I as the player would want to say, even if the NPCs can't respond to my specific dialog. the nodding/shaking mechanic would allow me to build my own color details to surround any particular yes/no choice I make.
    That said I don't think eye tracking is ESSENTIAL to the nod/shake recognition. There's already an oculus demo that uses the mechanic without much issue.
    I do agree that the peripheral vision is likely to be the last thing to get included, it would require not only curved screens, but it would also need a specialty eye piece, the round lenses that are currently used would need to be stretched into an odd arc so that it matches the curve of the screen, and the screen would have to match the pivoting angle of the eye of the player, which would all need to be very carefully designed, as even incredibly small imperfections would have highly visible impact on what the player sees.

  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    The only hard numbers I know of that are out there are from a paper Microsoft published in 2012 They concluded you could increase performance by a factor of 5 or 6! Though I think that's a bit optimistic if you ask me. Nvidia has said they are working on it and I am sure AMD has is as well. Unfortunately like most things with VR we wont be able to tell how well it works, meaning is it noticeable. If it works well you should not be able to tell if its on or not. As for performance? well who knows, I think if they can get it working half as good as that Microsoft paper says its theoretically possible then I think we will see huge performance gains, well above 25%. I suppose we will find out.

    I don't think I would want NPCs responding to me targeting them with my eyes, unless my head is oriented at them


    Absolutely not. But then again you could do that, nothing would be stopping you, and hopefully the NPC would have an appropriate response, "What the hell you doing? your eyes broken?" or "Your creeping me out!". Lets say your interacting with a female NPC and your facing her but your eyes are staring at her tits. Well perhaps she wont be giving you that quest after all. Or maybe her stock just went up 10%. Or maybe she really wants to hear your "dragon shout" :p (lol sorry). The point I'm trying to get across is that its amazing how much we communicate with one another with just our body language, facial expressions and eye movements(apparently I role my eye when I am annoyed and my wife gets VERY upset when I do that). The more of those communication nuances we can get into VR the more immersive it could, and hopefully will eventually be. Getting a robust convincing system in place is no small task. Though I think its very possible as you can greatly limit the number of reasonable responses by the context of the game and the actions the user has already performed.
  • those "eyes broken" comments could get annoying if everyone is scripted to react that obviously, which is what I really dread. Recognizing where someone's gaze is actually oriented is a very subtle thing to notice, particularly with full accuracy, but at the same time developers want to make sure you don't miss all these cool features, so they tend to beat you over the head with these types of mechanics, so instead of a realistic response of just sort of lowering her opinion(or maybe even being flattered) when she NOTICES you staring at her boobs, every girl in the game automatically starts calling you a perv or crossing their arms and fuming at you if your eyes just happen to pass over incidentally (even when they shouldn't be able to tell where you're looking) will get really old, really fast, especially when it's the 6th or 7th time in the span of 10 minutes. Just look at how annoying some towns in Skyrim gets when all the townspeople keep yammering at you when you're just trying to get past them to the smithy.
    Don't take this as an argument AGAINST the implementation though. I agree with the point you've raised about nuanced interactions, but the key to it is NUANCE and hand in hand with that Subtlety needs to go, and I'm a little concerned that anyone who implements it properly wont ever get noticed, and the ones who do get noticed will just annoy people enough to convince the general populous that it's a disadvantage.
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