International Refund Program

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Comments

  • @sutekiB I received the email saying it was being refunded, and had the echeck in my account but for some reason Virtuix cancelled the payment. I have sent an email to virtuix no response, can you guys help me ?
  • adminadmin Posts: 163
    Hi Langknow, sorry about this issue. PayPal is giving us a headache, as their system constantly blocks certain transactions or limits our account without reason. Now we are having a problem with the eChecks that were issued last week and the week before - for some reason they are not getting cleared (and PayPal does not give us any other payment options). Please bear with us while we sort out these PayPal issues. Thank you! Best regards, Jan.
  • WillWill Posts: 3
    I'm confused...maybe I missed something somewhere?
    According to the announcement: "Therefore, we have made the difficult decision to only deliver units to our U.S. home market and issue refunds to our customers outside of the U.S."

    But on the Shop page, the Omni package info states it is only available for purchase for commercial use.

    So, can U.S. home customers purchase a consumer version or not?

    Thanks in advance.
  • GatxclubGatxclub Posts: 8
    They told me that I need to click CANCEL eCheck in PayPal and they will resend the new eCheck. After I did that I didn't get any respond ...
  • DanteMDanteM Posts: 202
    admin said:

    Hi Langknow, sorry about this issue. PayPal is giving us a headache, as their system constantly blocks certain transactions or limits our account without reason. Now we are having a problem with the eChecks that were issued last week and the week before - for some reason they are not getting cleared (and PayPal does not give us any other payment options). Please bear with us while we sort out these PayPal issues. Thank you! Best regards, Jan.

    hows this refund process coming along, are you shipping US omni's yet I still haven't seen anyone confirm that they received an Omni or even an email. I'd imagine even the quite folk would be excited and come to the forum to announce they have theirs. They have been sitting at there Texas office for a few months now.
  • sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,040
    @DanteM They are now being shipped from the office. It's a slow process however - close inspections, getting payment for shipping, checking the delivery address / contact info, packing, and arranging pickup all take time. Once we're happy that inspections are no longer needed, they won't be shipped via the office anymore, which will speed things up.
    Community Manager at Virtuix
  • AdminoAdmino Posts: 38
    Will said:

    can U.S. home customers purchase a consumer version or not?

    Thanks in advance.

    @Will Currently, Virtuix is not accepting any new orders (or pre-orders) from consumers period. They are taking orders from commercial clients.
    US-based backers who have already placed an order will receive their Omni as planned.
    Non-US-based backers, i.e. those with an address outside of the US, will get a refund.

    My hunch (hope) is that Virtuix will eventually re-open consumer orders in regions where they already have a presence and support structure, i.e. the US and China.
    Time will tell.
  • DanteMDanteM Posts: 202
    sutekiB said:

    @DanteM They are now being shipped from the office. It's a slow process however - close inspections, getting payment for shipping, checking the delivery address / contact info, packing, and arranging pickup all take time. Once we're happy that inspections are no longer needed, they won't be shipped via the office anymore, which will speed things up.

    I can imagine ^.^ I know they are coming in good time just pointing out that we have been told a few times now that units have shipped and customers have received emails which I find REALLY odd that no customers have confirmed yet as I know I myself would be like "HEY GUYS GUESS WHAT!!!! WOOOOO!!!!" and such the day I had solid info about it shipping or something lol.
  • shayologoshayologo Posts: 13
    I send E mail for paypals refound 14 week ago but i don't have any money refound
  • nearly finished ^^ os-vr.net
  • GreyAcumenGreyAcumen Posts: 308
    @steffen1980 - I decided to check out your website, and while I'm certain there is other information on it, the only thing I could see was the idiot wearing a gear VR or other phone based VR headset while riding an actual bicycle outside. About the only way that could look dumber is if she had an actual unplugged Oculus Rift on her face instead, and what little expectations I have of this site you're creating being able to accomplish ANYTHING just drops lower and lower every time I look at it. Aside from that, the purple text is next to impossible to read against the background you're using anyway, and even gets cut off by the big purple block at the bottom, so there is absolutely no incentive to actually read any of it.
  • PhanlixPhanlix Posts: 6
    So... I just have to ask since the wording has been changed on the site to commercial only... US customers are still going to get theirs right? Sorry my European friends for your loss I truly am, but I'd like to know that mine is still coming... still hold onto that hope. For a while longer at least.

    I'd love an update to the main site... anything would be so cool. Some of the items there still refer to them being shipped q1 of 2016 which, yeah.

    I hope one day soon you'll be the powerhouse multi billion corporation that you will one day be if you can weather this storm. I hope you print so many of these things that one is in the hands of every person in the world. And most of all... I want my @! $% Omni! Haha, yeah anyways a release update in light of this tragic news would be pretty cool.
  • DanteMDanteM Posts: 202
    Phanlix said:

    So... I just have to ask since the wording has been changed on the site to commercial only... US customers are still going to get theirs right? Sorry my European friends for your loss I truly am, but I'd like to know that mine is still coming... still hold onto that hope. For a while longer at least.

    Please look around the forums a bit before than just asking a question you could of found in under a minute. http://forum.virtuix.com/discussion/2913/just-tell-me-when-im-going-to-get-my-omni#latest which shows @CheezWiz and their Omni and how AMAZING it's gonna be :D I'm so stoked!!! I can't wait for that email they are suppose to be sending out telling us our place in line.. He was kickstart backer #40 so the line is moving :D
  • PhanlixPhanlix Posts: 6
    DanteM said:

    Phanlix said:

    So... I just have to ask since the wording has been changed on the site to commercial only... US customers are still going to get theirs right? Sorry my European friends for your loss I truly am, but I'd like to know that mine is still coming... still hold onto that hope. For a while longer at least.

    Please look around the forums a bit before than just asking a question you could of found in under a minute. http://forum.virtuix.com/discussion/2913/just-tell-me-when-im-going-to-get-my-omni#latest which shows @CheezWiz and their Omni and how AMAZING it's gonna be :D I'm so stoked!!! I can't wait for that email they are suppose to be sending out telling us our place in line.. He was kickstart backer #40 so the line is moving :D
    DanteM said:

    Phanlix said:

    So... I just have to ask since the wording has been changed on the site to commercial only... US customers are still going to get theirs right? Sorry my European friends for your loss I truly am, but I'd like to know that mine is still coming... still hold onto that hope. For a while longer at least.

    Please look around the forums a bit before than just asking a question you could of found in under a minute. http://forum.virtuix.com/discussion/2913/just-tell-me-when-im-going-to-get-my-omni#latest which shows @CheezWiz and their Omni and how AMAZING it's gonna be :D I'm so stoked!!! I can't wait for that email they are suppose to be sending out telling us our place in line.. He was kickstart backer #40 so the line is moving :D
    With respect it's ridiculous to assume I'm going to comb through the forums for something like this. Besides, I'm not a kickstarter backer. I preordered off of the site. My order is in the 10,000 range which at this point I can only assume is years out in the future.

    I didn't place an order on a site that is for backing future products. I placed it on this one, and when I placed it there was a time frame in place I was comfortable with. Which is quite obviously a complete lie at this stage and has not been updated at all.

    I don't think it is at all unreasonable to request an update from a company on the time frame they expect to deliver a product to someone that paid near on $1000. And before you say anything, I'm not a kickstarter backer, so yes promises have been made on a final product to me. I ordered it off this site because a time frame was in place were, and I don't think it's unreasonable to request some clarification now that their time frame is completely off, especially when there are rumors they are servicing arcades instead of preordered units that they've accepted money on already.

    I've seen some staff respond in here, I was hoping one of them would respond instead of a superfan.
  • sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,040
    @Phanlix My apologies for the delay. To confirm, US based customers are still receiving their Omnis.
    Community Manager at Virtuix
  • PhanlixPhanlix Posts: 6
    Thanks sutekiB I also see there's been an update posted a few days ago which is awesome. It's the not knowing what's going on that's the hardest part about waiting on this amazing product. But I'm a patient man, and I don't overly need the money at the moment.
  • Wow, am I ever glad I didn't kickstart this. So much for having any more of my support guys, I suppose I'll back others that know what they're doing.
  • sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,040
    @AnotherCrazyCanadian We understand why you feel that way, to which you have every right. We thank you for having supported us and apologise for letting you down. This has been very humbling. We hope we can rebuild our international community, and through hard work win back the approval of former backers and supporters.
    Community Manager at Virtuix
  • JenssonsJenssons Posts: 13
    i havent got a email how do i get a refund i live in the uk
  • adminadmin Posts: 163
    Hi Jenssons, please email us your PayPal email address at info@virtuix.com, and your Kickstarter / pre-order information. Thank you!
  • MeyhemikMeyhemik Posts: 8
    OK, where to start?
    Backed your product during the kickstarter campaign (2013) with my associate, we opted for the multiplayer level (2 units) and waited for the campaign to end.
    A year later and no product, merely constant updates stating delay after delay.
    Email arrives requesting numbers for additions. We order 3pairs extra shoes (units have 0ne included), we opt for a rack each and a few other bits.
    Email arrives requesting PAYPAL / payment info, monies deducted totalling 1100 US.
    Another year on and still nothing more than delay after dalay.
    36xx backers waiting for a delivery schedule and nothing. oh wait, delays.
    In November i tried a unit at PAX melbourne, seems... usable. the wait might actually be worth it, annoyance replace with cautious optimism.
    Talking to the guys there, delivery Q1 at the latest to Australia. pleasing to here... hopes raised... start talking more about omni.
    Meet a few other backers at PAX... all told similar timeframes, all excited.

    But wait... December 2016 (not even a full month later) Jan and SutekiB now saying too expensive to send here.
    Looking over your forums to find the statment i wanted to quote (probably deleted due to admission-of-fault), but it was said that during the PATHFINDER program the costs of delivery were found to be quite high.
    WHY DIDNT YOU PUT THAT IN AN UPDATE.
    PATHFINDER ended mid year 2016 did you not think to notify backers THEN.
    Did you honestly think the costs would somehow MAGICALLY drop?.
    OH , but wait, you claim to understand our frustration, REALLY, your the cause of it...
    You constantly claim "small startup" , and staff numbers "of 15 people", well what of the 2 at PAXMelbourne, were they temps?, Temps with alot of background knowledge, why are your temps giving delivery timeframes? .
    Seriously, how did the cost of shipping units not arise as you were parading the unit from expo to conference, LONG BEFORE PATHFINDER.
    Why not just refund ALL backers. including US backers.
    I mean your office is in Texas, is the reality of an armed backer demanding an omni at gunpoint the reason your satisfying US backers only.
    Whats the failure rate of the omni from CHINA. it must be REALLY HIGH to justify having to fully check each unit as you recieve them, instead of shipping direct from factory. why not have a crew in China checking them before they leave the factory floor. BEFORE they are packaged.
    The cost of shipping from China to Australia is LOW... but we have trade sanctions in place.
    The only obvious reason, is to slap a USA product badge on it and recieve some kind of TAX credits for it.
    The fact that you also wont allow int.backers to give US address for delivery is a repeated slap to the face.
    Customer service is a lack-luster excuse... your never going to manage handling a consumer market of you readily admit to not being able to handle singular home users concerns.
    The last few update coming out of virtuix have been nothing but celebration of your efforts to woo consumer markets, coupled with a list of games that can be played.

    There are ways to satisfy customer and consumer. Look at the kickstarter successes like OCULUS.
    sure oculus took a hit to the pocket with the DK1, but it got tongues salivating and people were talking... sharing vids and experiences.
    the DK2 announcement saw massive sales... and gaind interest from alot of sectors... when crystal cove was announced (CV1) word was out, interest was booming.
    what was that worth to oculus... 2b in invested dollars and a slew of companies attempting to take a piece of that pie. Sure alot are talking about the VIVE, but they refence it against.... the oculus.

    You could have been the oculus of ODT's but instead your listed with the failures that have tried.
    Virtuix, for all purposes, pray your decision hasnt become the crutch that closes your doors. because 16 million invested by a game company is small fish.
    You should have released your original design\ product to those that backed you as a proto1. then making refinements to beecome proto2, and so on to a final unit.
    THAT IS IF, in fact, during the kickstarter, it was a functioning product at all.
    Your updates of sensor replacement and redesign after redesign has in itself started a cloud of 'never had a product' and 'used 1.5+ million of crowdfunded monies to produce a functioning product', which concievably brought about the realisaton that it was going to cost 3x as much to produce.

    Yes im frustrated. like ive had an amourous woman infront of me for 4 years whilst being tied to a chair.... only now to learn, it was never there.
    When are you deliving to austalia. when..
    none of this "not for the forseeable future" garbage,
    None of those i faced and spoke to had recieved refund emails.... we all seem to agree if you want to push refunds, then its your job to satisfy YOUR programs... if you want me to give you my email\paypal associated with the purchase ( which is not this one... my updates are relayed to yet another) i will galdly do so, but theres an administation fee that is attached, its just business you understand.

    As for the legality of misappropriation of crowdfunded monies, that REALLY needs to be addressed.
    Every update from the completion of kickstarter to september or so 2016 claimed modifications and either replacing of or inclusion of additional sensors... how did the original version (as shown on multiple virtuix videos) actually work, and work well, yet had to be constantly modified. i mean if it worked in the videos made, then it wasnt faulty, hence should not have needed the 'fixes'

    WE HAD AN AGREEMENT VIRTUIX. THE RELINQUISHMENT OF FUNDS FROM THE ACCOUNT WAS YOUR PROMISE TO PROVIDE.
    GET A SOLUTION FOR SHIPPING SORTED AND GET THE UNITS DELIVERED. THATS YOUR OBLIGATION.
    YOUR REFUND OPTION IS A FARSE. 3%... OUR BANKS OFFER 4.5 - 5.2%... OR JUST MAKE THE REFUND OUT TO THE COST OF AN OMNI PRIOR TO THE REMOVAL OF PRICE ON YOUR SITE $999 per, THE SAME FOR THE RACK, EXTRA SHOES... THE LOT. PLUS THE LAUGHABLE 3% (compounded monthly as stated) , THEN ... MAYBE.

    I'll stop here, theres more... 4 years of frustration held back...
    hopes dashed... optimism quashed...

    MEYHEMIK.






  • XainXain Posts: 122
    @Meyhemik Man that was a block of text.. I skimmed over it but you do realize the reason Oculus could even ship internationally was because Facebook bought them out, right? You can't compare them to Virtuix.. On another note its surprising how many international users either never recieved the email about cancelling orders or perhaps thkse users don't check their email?
  • MeyhemikMeyhemik Posts: 8
    @Xain. yeah i realise the FB thing.. but that was after the DK2... 2 units produced when FB took an interest.
    from the kickstarter campaign and through the nest 18 months or so VIRTUIX were the Oculus of ODT.
    Not so much anymore.. when you look into ODT now.. theres nothing but speculation of what may have been, only a small amount of people actually recieved.
    There stating that they're up to order 16XX, but how many within the 16XX were refunded... theres 50 in a container... i dont think they.ve recieved 32 containers, and if so it takes a week to test, 15 employees within the company.. the math doesnt add up. Unless the containers were rolling in from SEPT/OCT 2016.
    The US backers may get theres now.. at the price they ordered... oh but with an elevated delivery cost.... this has been let down after let down.
    As for the emails... why is it the backers job to seek the refund. They know where the orders came from, most backers have filled out orders back in 2014, we've waited,supported and even sacrificed our reputations to promote a product, that now, to many... is nothing more than vapour.
    Like i said, oculus took a massive cost hit with DK1 & DK2, and the result was a massive, MASSIVE, fan base of people either showing off.. or eagerly awaiting. the DK2 sold out quickly, hence the FB interest... do you really think that FB wouldve dove in on a product with no background, had been and gone twice since the 80's ( yeah.. im that old)...

    Still waiting for a response from VIRTUIX.
    Meyhemik.
  • MeyhemikMeyhemik Posts: 8
    @xain. As an idea.. approx timeframes, as i cant find my invoices.
    oculus rift DK1 campaign 2012.. released 2013
    Facebook took sat up and took note around Jan 2014...
    oculus rift DK2 sales start 2013... released approx march 2014.
    Around the time the units were sent out FB stood up waving the checkbook.
    announced planned purchase march. UNITS still shipping... facebook invest 2b, and cresent cove (CV1) begins development.
    Just an idea of timeline...
    Before i recieved my DK2... i backed this one. since then i preordered an CV1 and have recieved.
    Oculus have become a VR inspiration.
    Look back to the early days of OMNI, so many hyped people, excited, personally i was pumped, this was the integral VR piece to complete my setup.
    I even got the DELTA SIX for the setup... being that i live in Australia.... it was surprising to get a controller the size and shape of an AR15 assalt rifle in past customs, gun laws here are that insane.
    DELTA SIX had no warranty in Australia. Service was by email only, so you had to wait.
    Theres ALOT of "WTF" statements to justify this stab in the back to backers.
    Sure, it may have hit the market without backer support... wouldve taken awhile to raise the 1.6 million with a plywood prototype and a hastily assembled first run. with no other products out there.. but it COULD have.

    HEY VIRTUIX... WHATS THE HOLDUP....
    OR is this what you mean by Unable to handle customer support... on a forum, that you own.
    this is laughable.
    Meyhemik.


  • XainXain Posts: 122
    @Meyhemik The Omni is also around.. what, 250lbs? Thats a different scale to ship than a 5lb headset.
    I do get you though, from an international point of view it looks like they took your money, got started and only released to the US. Then instead of choosing to give you a voucher for when they do happen to get international parnters they instead refund you. Hell they won't even let you ship your unit to the US to allow you yourself to find a way to ship it.
  • MeyhemikMeyhemik Posts: 8
    @Xain. Thanks for pointing out the weight, as a backer that has recieved regular updates since before the kickstarter ended, i must have 'skimmed' past that.
    Your missing my point, seriously, and that's disappointing. I know what it weighs, have for a while, seems to be in lot of the updates.... my point is that Virtuix knew this... very early in the production phase too.
    Backers werent shying away from it either, making arrangements for trailers, trucks, flatbeds, whatever they needed to collect their unit(s),

    SO HOW, AND WHY, THE HELL IS IT A PROBLEM NOW.

    @Xain. 5LBS (2.3KGs).... YUP.. the weight and dimensions were mentioned regularly... and there were delays, sure... but it came, AS PROMOSED. DK1 DK2... both cost 300 and 350 respective, WITHOUT SHIPPING... They sold at a loss. The DK1 made people fall over, or vomit, or both. The DK2 had no motion controllers planned at the time of release.
    But the units sold out.. people talked, a lot.
    CV1 has a cost that reflects that loss, motion controllers cost extra, well mine did, but they weren't available when my CV1 came, gladly I shelled out for them too.. but it is surprisingly worth it.

    This is the way to success... THERE IS NO SUCCESS WITHOUT SACRIFICE.

    Personally I would have approached google to invest... but with no footprint in the industry... there's no investment. Which is probably why you kept sending units to expo's to make a presence. Much like OCULUS did, but they had hundreds of units out there, if not thousands.... With guys like me at expo's tapping shoulders saying " mate, you got to try it its awesome!", to which they did, running home to buy their own.
    If you go over all the updates there was almost a dozen modifications and retooling.... So many sensor modifications I lost count... these were the V2.0 etc. that you could have had. and they all would have sold... what ever happened to the original design set out you paraded at the get-go.... Did it actually work, or was it a well coordinated venture with a guy off screen controlling and instructing whilst your tester ran on a blank concave piece of plastic.
    Seriously guys, if it worked, why not build and send those out, gaining feedback from that group, 3600 beta testers... NAH... 50 pathfinders will do...

    AS BACKERS WE'RE PARTNERED TO YOU, BUT THERE WAS NO MENTION OF INTENION TO MODIFY, JUST STATEMENTS IN UPDATES THAT YOU HAD, BLOWING THE COST UP AND UP. WE SUPPORTED YOU WITH OUR MONEY TO MAKE A PRODUCT THE WORLD WILL WANT, AND INSTEAD WE'RE TREATED AS SOME SORT OF TEMP BUSINESS LOAN.
    BUSINESS LOANS ARE WHAT.. 9-11%... SO 3% IS A JOKE.
    IT HAS BEEN ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THE COSTS WERE SKYROCKETTING... HENCE THE $599 TO $999 JUMP.. EVENTUALLY LEADING TO THE REMOVAL OF PRICE.

    @VIRTUIX. Why didnt you lease them out to commercial businesses. You'd have made a heap more, and it'd be yearly, not a one off payment.. Also if they own it, even if you stipulate "service by Virtuix"... you dont have an office there, so your unable to control WHO is repairing/ servicing them... Under lease you can make it a condition, removing them from use if they fail to meet contracted guidelines... Leased units are deductable as a business expense, so HERO win too... Invested monies should be used to improve your product, instead of funding your refund scheme.

  • MeyhemikMeyhemik Posts: 8
    As an extra note..
    the "vouchers" offered didn't cover the cost of a unit.
    It only covered the $$ that an individual had backed for.
  • MeyhemikMeyhemik Posts: 8
    edited March 8
    Becoming very dissapointed with the communication from you guys n gals at Virtuix.
    Really people, come on.
    It was your decision to refund ALL outside the US, yet 4 months after your announcement still nothing.
    If your intention is to refund, whats the hold up. There's only (approx.) 160 backers in Australia alone, and yet no product email... nor refunds given.
    Youve stated its not your plan to hold onto our money, but... you still are.
    Would it be unreasonable to assume that we'll be getting our OMNI(s) soon.
    It cant be that hard to look over the surveys we filled out with our extras and what-not. Our addresses for delivery are on them. Or did you simply scrap them when this scheme began.
    Yeah its frustrating that you state we cant get it... starting to seem that your deliberately withholding the refunds too.
    If i'm touching a nerve... my account has an email address thats checked daily, and was setup purely for posting here.
    4 days posting for answers and nothing but silence.
    We shouldnt have to contact you for the return of funds. With interest or not... its just polite to acknowledge those who helped you get to this stage.
    If you dont want to have a public conversation, email me. You have the address... all i want is either a confirmation of delivery, or a date when our funds are being delivered. Which realisticallly should have been sorted when you "regretably made the decision".
    How many Aussies got their refund, and of those who had to ASK FOR IT.
    This isn't just unjust, its simply downright rude.
    Communicate.

    Waiting.for contact.
    Meyhemik.
  • sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,040
    Hi @Meyhemik, I can't find a record of your order or pledge - perhaps you used a different email address? Please email support@virtuix.com using the email account associated with your Kickstarter profile or pre-order, along with your PayPal details, and we will issue your refund ASAP.
    Community Manager at Virtuix
  • MeyhemikMeyhemik Posts: 8
    edited March 8
    sutekiB said:

    Hi @Meyhemik, I can't find a record of your order or pledge - perhaps you used a different email address? Please email support@virtuix.com using the email account associated with your Kickstarter profile or pre-order, along with your PayPal details, and we will issue your refund ASAP.

    After 4 days posting, i mention refund and theres a reply.
    I'll speak to my fellow backer (his account is that which we used, not this email account, and not my backer account) (geez i even stated that in a past post... UNREAD or ignored obviously) and inform him, on both the fact that you've replied re: refund... and the fact that even though we supported you well before HERO came into the picture, his money is worthless. You happily used it to create a working product. Then shut the door when it came time to deliver. Regrettable or not... this is another mob who used KICKSTARTER to raise funds they would never have attained and has treated its intitial investers (as kickstarter backers, we invested in you) as cashcows.

    ... and what if he refuses... will you (Virtuix) simply pocket the money.

    This is a perfect example of a company that blatantly abuse a community of people who actually WANT to see businesses rise. This is one. You guys modified the original setup to a point that you made it unattainable. Then made it unattainable if your outside the united states of north america. Cant even say america because it aint going south is it (lol). Probably should have taken the job i was offered in the US last year... I'd probably have it now, or soon, would have brought it back here to show my parents and friends. Didnt care for service or warranty... just wanted it.

    This is a psycho-drama that has created so much heartache and mistrust.
    But, there is a silver lining, As now i can inform those who i happily (excitedly and openly) promoted this product to, for years, and say " yup, those yanks have gone and screwed all those that funneled hard earned cash into this." and " if you didnt make it to PAX, or if you just wanna see it, let alone If you wanna use it, simply fly to China and seek out a HERO establishment....its only 5-7k to fly there n back, just to use a product (that was here in Melbourne last November with assumptions of Q1 '17 shipment), and if you wanna buy it, um yeah?!?, it's about the same cost as the ticket to fly there"....

    How is it that this wasnt forseen earlier, MUCH EARLIER.

    Surely Virtuix were aware of the shipping costs as they toted it around the globe showing it off. This REIMBURSMENT(its not a refund) should have come LONG AGO...
    Sorry, we share a language... Lets use it correctly shall we.

    To end i say, thank you.... would have apreciated a reach around... but Virtuix just screwed us anyway. Thanks for the frustration. The heart ache.. and now ultimately the depression.
    Meyhemik.
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