International Refund Program

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Comments

  • SlopeySlopey Posts: 24
    edited December 2016
    CheezWiz said:


    The fact of the matter is that they have made a fiscally responsible decision in an effort to move forward. It is likely at this point, any other decision would have destroyed the Omni completely.
    Is that what you all want? If you cannot have it, then no one can. Because that is what you are suggesting.

    It's easy to be defensive of Virtuix when you're not affected by it, being a US backer. You'll possibly (go check out the Australian partner's website....no non-commercial sales worldwide apparently??) get your unit. We're never going to get one, which we backed in good faith, at the price we paid when we were taking on the risk of not getting it. The refund is laughable as it is obviously nothing more than a low interest loan for Virtuix over 3 years. Building consumer acceptance of a new product does not happen by shafting your customers worldwide beyond the US. So enjoy your Omni when you get it - it's going to be niche, unsupported and irrelevant due to the actions of Virtuix.
  • GreyAcumenGreyAcumen Posts: 307
    edited December 2016
    hazdude said:

    giroudf said:

    I urge you to get your money back when it is still possible. after all you can leave without an omni and buy a KATVr or a chinese clone.
    now the roade is open, they will pop up like mushrooms after the rain, and probably you will get delivered even before what you would get from virtuix.

    Yeah at least KAT VR have got the product, can afford to ship (at what must be a loss), and are fulfilling their pledge to kickstarter backers. Omni clearly overpromised, but I still think it's pretty cynical to keep all the dedicated fans on board as free publicity/hype builders, when they knew they wouldn't be delivering on their orders.

    KAT VR are also planning on releasing a full commercial package to Western markets soon, no news on a home product, but at least they didn't jump the gun like Omni, lie to their customers and now hopefully face a massive PR backlash from all the international backers and pre-orderers Omni has been using for 3 YEARS
    Really? "Virtuix failed to live up to its promises, but THIS Chinese company making the same promises is totally legit. Glad to know someone is keeping their promises!" REALLY?
    I'm not even bashing on Kat VR here. If I hadn't stumbled on Omni first, and if Kat VR had been a more obvious solution to the wire tangling issue, I probably would have thrown in with them already. I'm just impressed that you are managing to so readily believe someone new after having just been burned.
    CheezWiz said:

    Grey, I get your gold bar analogy, but come on, that is an unrealistic expectation. Depending on the legalease of each of your respective countries, you could seek some sort of legal action. But would it really be worth it for a few hundred dollars?

    I absolutely agree that doing so would be unrealistic, but the focus here isn't on the money as it is focusing on what Virtuix can do to assure the people who are being let down by this announcement of the sincerity of its intentions. That is ultimately the key issue to the people raising hell on these forums right now. It's not about the money, it's about the perceived betrayal.
    If this news had been announced just 2 months ago, maybe even just 1 month ago, people might have accepted a little more readily that this was an unfortunate overreach of a new and naive company with dreams bigger than their pocketbook, but unfortunately, there is no way that this news can be treated as entirely separately from other recent news announcements; both the increase in price, and the release of Omni units to the Chinese market. These factors are incredibly damning, because even if it is not Virtuix's intention to deliberately cut low paying customers out of the equation, it is the end result.
    It's not that refunding the current listed value of the Omni is realistic, but since we've already removed "shipping units anyway and getting these kickstarters/pre-orders to agree to fund all future shipments for repairs", or "providing some sort of voucher" from the table, it is the only remaining option that has a chance of conveying Virtuix's intentions for these kickstarters/pre-orders, in some far off and hopeful future, to receive their Omnis.
    I had also proposed the idea of international kickstarters being given the option to put their purchase towards sponsoring US-based VR development teams, but so far the only other person I've seen to even hint at being willing to go with this option is you, and you're not an international backer, so any intention of altruism you may have is purely hypothetical.
  • SlopeySlopey Posts: 24
    edited December 2016
    Well, from the "bringing the Omni to Europe" post on the other forum section, it's clear Virtuix have no plans to sell to consumers in the future.

    (
    admin said:

    We have suspended consumer sales on our website to focus on our backlog. Currently we have no plans to bring back consumer sales. The delivery of Kickstarter and pre-order units in the US will continue as planned.

    )

    So any talk of vouchers etc is irrelevant - unless you can convince them to ship it to the US/China to an alternative address, and arrange clandestine forward shipping yourself to your home country, the Virtuix ship has sailed. Without consumer level support, and a decent number of units available world wide,, the Omni will never be popular enough to justify support in any decent gaming titles, so you might as well just claim the refund and move on.
  • These guys turned out to be worse businessmen than they thought, same as the majority of start ups who go belly up within the first few years. What you can be pissed at them for, is that they probably knew they would have to make this move a long time ago, but they waited until they had other buyers for the units before releasing our money.

    Now, having gotten my money back I'm actually fairly pleased - to me it seems it is the US customers who get the worse deal here - they get a product that will get little to no support in the way of software seeing there will be no "home market" to cater to as this will be a chinese arcade product from here on out. So if you are still hesitating, get your money back while you still can and don't look back!
  • giroudf said:

    So the B2B failed and so the B2C have to pay for ?
    B2C was the reason why virtuix exists, first with kickstarter and then with pre-order.
    Now they are willing to cut the only ones who provided the money and would probably ready to pay more.
    You would learn that what is most precious to a company is the atitude and the confidence it brings to customer.
    They got it for free and they just throw that into the drain, instead asking for help.
    For consumer, if there is no product, virtuix does not exist.

    I think it's right some competitors or open platforms might solve household usage in afew years.
    strategy of the Virtuix is incorrect.
  • AscensiAscensi Posts: 119
    edited December 2016
    I wonder how the non game treadmills are handled if they break down.. they probably weigh about the same if not more.. perhaps the Omni could be sold through fitness stores, they might already have a system in place for these kinds of products. I think Virtuix just needs some good ideas rather than being bashed. If you can't wait for them because of the issue, maybe finding another VR solution is best for now. I do feel that when arcades and game developers have fully tapped the Omni.. and people everywhere are drawn to it that it will show up sooner at a best buy, Walmart or some fitness stores.

    Another thing that might be able to be done quickly is that with all the monthly license fees paid to Virtuix that service centers may start opening up - servicing contracts in local countries. I think if this was posted on Virtuix's website starting with specific high volume/licensed Omnis that it could make more doors open. There might already be generic servicing centers that can be tapped into.. existing businesses with the space and employees waiting to take on new products.. Example http://choicefitnessrepair.com/ Another http://www.treadmillrepair.ca/ I know the parts would be different but they have workshops, receive parts etc.

    Also.. for non business Omnis.. maybe there could be a monthly low subscription/insurance fee offer to customers to help the cost of shipping & repair if needed.
  • Ascensi said:

    I wonder how the non game treadmills are handled if they break down.. they probably weigh about the same if not more.. perhaps the Omni could be sold through fitness stores, they might already have a system in place for these kinds of products. I think Virtuix just needs some good ideas rather than being bashed. If you can't wait for them because of the issue, maybe finding another VR solution is best for now. I do feel that when arcades and game developers have fully tapped the Omni.. and people everywhere are drawn to it that it will show up sooner at a best buy, Walmart or some fitness stores.

    And how about DIY? By using,assembling existing devices with open platform.
    Might it better I or we research some standard I/F or platform of physical VR?
    (I'm not a Omni software developer, but I got a little motivation from this issue at this time. Can I get the useful information from Omni SDK?)

    If some guys hold grudge, It is effective to proof the strategy of The Virtuix is mistaken.
  • giroudfgiroudf Posts: 127
    edited December 2016
    It Is proven that arcade game is doing nothing for consumer game market.
    did you see any of the arcade product (games, seats, gun, platforms) leaked in the consumer market ?
    Simply because first, this is an ecosystem (software , hardware, distribution) that is usually proprietary (on purpose to protect from copy)
    Then it is very often too bulky (it's made for arcade) and finally, the only reason you will pay 20$ for half an hour on an omni, is because it is not available anywhere else (novelty , exclusivity).
    If the Omni prove to be a success (and actually it is not, since B2B did no see a big interest investing in it), open platform will appear very soon.
    After all the bright thing is just in the concept, all the rest is a slippy surface.
    And don't forget that for a bit more than 1k$ you can get a full motion capture suite, a technology that is well ahead from the omni and a lot more powerfull.
    and camera like Kinect has still something to say.

    My vision of the future is home made platform , (you can buy teflon pad in any supermarket) getting rid of the electronic sensor, replaced by IR camera and reflective velcro strap.
    The high end make will include a motion capture suit.
    And I also think the omni has no future as arcade game just because you have to leave your shoes to put some special ones (that's a no go for a lot of people as much as a sweaty VR helmet)
    As you can see, the omni as arcade installation will certainly require an assistant to be present at any time. (cost $$$)
    To clean the VR helmet, to distribute the correct sized shoes, to give a small training. This is nowhere a slot machine game.

    It is not sure what happens now for us, consumer is a bad thing.
    Somethimes when a good idea surfaced, but did not succeed, it allows to go directly to the next good idea.
    We could have get the omni and be stuck with it for several years, new we are free to go forward with a clearer view.
    Now, the idea of locomotion in VR is set, and probably the next thing to fulfill that need will be better than the omni and will exist even sooner.
    It is just a bad news for virtuix.




  • AscensiAscensi Posts: 119
    The prototype I was working on is built up of smaller parts, so that if a part became broken it could easily be shipped back and replaced. This treadmill was/is Jan's vision.. I wish I had shared my concept before they made final changes.. but maybe it can be Omni 2.0. I just needed/wanted to have a long term transition out of my current job situation into something that pays more so I kept it to myself thinking either I would kick start it.. It was meant to compliment the omni, not replace it. I still may publish it on Youtube, and maybe Jan considers adopting it -make it certified or insurance safe for omni eventually. The market for home users is big.. If people were able to save up and buy smaller parts to assemble it later it's good. Arcades might have to come first because they need the business unfortunately.. if most could afford an omni, there wouldn't be much point in an arcade.. but at this time there aren't many native games for it.. so both development and arcades will prove the functionality/benefits to the end user in time but not likely if customers just own them now.
  • SlopeySlopey Posts: 24
    Ascensi said:

    The prototype I was working on is built up of smaller parts, so that if a part became broken it could easily be shipped back and replaced. This treadmill was/is Jan's vision.. I wish I had shared my concept before they made final changes.. but maybe it can be Omni 2.0. I just needed/wanted to have a long term transition out of my current job situation into something that pays more so I kept it to myself thinking either I would kick start it.. It was meant to compliment the omni, not replace it. I still may publish it on Youtube, and maybe Jan considers adopting it -make it certified or insurance safe for omni eventually. The market for home users is big.. If people were able to save up and buy smaller parts to assemble it later it's good. Arcades might have to come first because they need the business unfortunately.. if most could afford an omni, there wouldn't be much point in an arcade.. but at this time there aren't many native games for it.. so both development and arcades will prove the functionality/benefits to the end user in time but not likely if customers just own them now.

    I would strongly advise you don't share it with anyone, especially if you one day want to make an income out of it. As soon as you post it up on YouTube, you're going to be toast. And don't offer it to Virtuix!! Keep it to yourself, trademark/register/patent it and once you have all those in place, only then go public - otherwise China will start pushing out your design and you'll never see a penny.

    Also - how do you know the market is big? Around what 4k of us were committed enough for the Kickstarter, but that doesn't mean it's viable. Saying the market is big because many people have homes is flawed. You'd need to do *proper* market research - how many people have a decent gaming rig, how many have VR, of those how many have space for such a unit, and would they buy it, and at what price.

    If it was as wonderful a market as it might appear, I'd imagine we wouldn't be in this shipping mess.

    Anyway -don't go public with your prototype until you have it protected, and you know you can a) deliver it (Unlike Virtuix) and b) it can be made affordably.
  • DanteMDanteM Posts: 212
    admin said:


    For customers in the U.S., we will also issue refunds upon request plus the interest payment of 3% per year (compounded monthly). We understand that circumstances change, and our product has changed as well. The Omni is quite heavy, comes in a large box (230lbs / 105kg) on a wooden pallet, and delivering the unit to your home will cost around $200, which is much higher than we initially estimated. Therefore, feel free to contact us at [email protected] if you’d like to request a refund of your pledge.

    Our process from Kickstarter campaign to delivering a hardware product has been very humbling. At the start of any journey it’s not always exactly clear where you might end up. We’d like to thank each of you for embarking on this journey with us and for all your support along the way. We will continue to work hard to bring natural locomotion to VR and enable the kind of VR experience we’ve always dreamed of.

    Best regards,

    Jan and the Virtuix team

    Refund? if anything I'm even more excited now! This means I may get my Omni even sooner as being part of the first 620 to kickstart back the omni ^.^ looking forward to the email about shipping!
  • giroudfgiroudf Posts: 127
    edited December 2016
    well, if you are an US citizen located in USA, you would get some chance to get it, while virtuix seems to prefer for you to ask a refund.
    so possibly in late 2017 you would get it. And then you would also discover it is totally useless.
    so you will start to sell it to some European who would die for it.
    but your best guess will certainly be to transform it into a yuapala for your grand father


  • FR3DFR3D Posts: 18
    I don't need your support, I don't need shipping. Tell me where my Omnies are and I will go there and carry them home by myself !

    Most of us are engeneers like me - we don't need your support ...

    I thing you are a lyer.I'm sure you sold virtuix omni to investors and these investors is not interested in shipping omnis.
    looks like Palmer and Facebook.

    worst regards FR3D




  • LamaLama Posts: 1
    To the Virtuix team:
    I am from Canada, not far from the US border. I purchased this treadmill in Feb 2014 and was confirmed it would be shipped by Q4 of 2016. And now nothing, while so close to the goal....
    I actually want to test this treadmill with my students as a first step and don't mind about the fact that this first version is imperfect or will need to be completely replaced by a new one at some point (at my own cost). I volunteer to personally pay the shipping for my unit and can arrange shipping. If not possible, I would at the minimum donate the omni to fellow researchers I know in the US, so that this 2.5 year wait does not get lost. This whole situation is difficult and has caused a major breach of trust between the company and those who supported it from the beginning and followed the evolution of the project over the months and years. I am still hopeful that the Virtuix Team will reconsider its decision of not shipping outside the US and will find a solution to accommodate the early backers.
  • DanteMDanteM Posts: 212
    FR3D said:


    Most of us are engeneers like me - we don't need your support ...

    Where are you getting your information that most backers are engineers?
  • My PayPal Account does Not longer exist. And i only see an reason to create a new one is about the shipping costs. I do not accept this something tricky offer.
  • I wasn't going to post about this issue as I didn't think there was much to be said that hadn't been said already, until I read an email from a local supplier.

    I'll keep the details brief to protect the supplier. Basically I have had an international pre-order through Virtuix's website for 2 years. After hearing the news, I have been in communication with a local supplier to see if I can still get one. They have informed me that they have been forced by Virtuix to suspend all sales EXCEPT to commercial buyers (i.e. companies), and that the price of the Omni has been increased to ~$7000 per unit as instructed by Virtuix. I seriously think that if they can't send one to me, I will be taking my money back and running far away from this company. It is a real shame, as I had also had high hopes and was always promoting the benefits of the product to friends and family.

    And when I logged in to submit this, I received a Second Anniversary badge. From Virtuix - "Thanks for sticking with us for 2 years. +5 points." I guess that's all I have to show for this entire journey. Thanks Virtuix.
  • DanteMDanteM Posts: 212
    edited December 2016
    Artephax said:

    Basically I have had an international pre-order through Virtuix's website for 2 years. After hearing the news, I have been in communication with a local supplier to see if I can still get one. They have informed me that they have been forced by Virtuix to suspend all sales EXCEPT to commercial buyers (i.e. companies), and that the price of the Omni has been increased to ~$7000 per unit as instructed by Virtuix.

    I'd love to see this information. If there was any truth to that it would be a hell of a PR nightmare and so much more. Sounds very conspiracy theory to me though. Either way I'm gonna wait for my Omni I already paid for to arrive.
  • mmoerdersmmoerders Posts: 6
    edited December 2016
    Dear Virtuix Team,

    this is the 3rd time I ask this Question: IS THERE A DEADLINE UNTIL WE HAVE TO DECIDE IF WE ACCEPT THE REFUND ???

    Sincerely
  • ArtephaxArtephax Posts: 12
    edited December 2016
    @DanteM - Normally I would be happy to post the email, since anyone could just say that on the forum without proof, but I don't want the supplier to get in trouble with Virtuix. I have asked the supplier if they are okay with me posting the email. They said that because things might change (they're still in discussions with Virtuix about this) and there may be information that the specific representative or store is not privy to, they requested that the email not be posted publicly. I will honor their request out of respect for them, as they have been nothing but helpful with this whole situation. They have told me that what I have posted is acceptable.
  • TomekTomek Posts: 76
    Yeah makes sense. otherwise they would give a voucher. A voucher isn't a promise anyway. If they never released overseas they wouldn't have to honor anything. I got my refund. Although I now want to know where I can get an alternative treadmill that WILL ship to Australia.
  • sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,061
    @mmoerders Apologies for not getting back to you sooner. There is currently no deadline for sending in your PayPal details, but that's not to say that there won't ever be, so I would recommend doing it now in case you forget. The interest is calculated based on the interval between the close of the Kickstarter campaign and this month (December).
    @Artephax I'm not sure what's in the email, but thank you for your discretion.
    @DanteM Hopefully the fact that there was a distributor deal recently (albeit changed now) that allowed resale to consumers, shows that it was a recent decision to step away from this market for the time being, and not something planned out long ago.
    Community Manager at Virtuix
  • XainXain Posts: 125
    I take that with a grain of **** salt honestly. The forums these days have been toxic as ****, if the Omni totally cancels everything and goes full arcade sure I'd be peeved, but would i type angrily at my keyboard daily with new conspiracy theories and hoping they fail as a company? C'mon I literally don't have the time for that.
  • We payed for our omni and not for an Credit to you. You stop your cheating immediately and so fast you can!!! That is cheating what you try to do all over the World, but you can be for sure and forgot that i accept this cheat. You tell us already which omni we receive, so you have to send us our Omnis ASAP! Your Refund-Request is impossible at this point. What you want to Do After send us your promise you can Do what you want. But before you have to send us our already payed and also produced omnis.
  • I received this email just 18 hours ago:
    Dear [redacted],

    As you may know, Hero Sports ( Subsidiary company of Hero Entertainment 英雄互娱) is the designated sole authorized distributor for Omni in Asia area.

    As a gaming & eSports company, our mission is not only to follow but also to push forward the industry and bring the best gaming experience to everyone. The strong belief of interactions in game and the spirit of eSports&competition that deeply rooted in our company gene tell us that: VR sports is the future to come. Thus, we have been searching all around the world for the best product, that’s why we started our cooperation with Virtuix Omni.

    As the only strategic cooperative partner in Asia, we have a rather more established platform, both in hardware and software area. For hardware, we have set up the channel to deliver Omnis to the entire Asia, and guarantee the best after-sales service you require. For software, we are developing and also sourcing the best game globally for Omni gameplay. Meanwhile, a commercialized platform for the management of VR arcades is also available to use by now.

    We hope and strongly believe that, the dream of Virtuix Omni team is now realizing in Asia area.

    Again, we appreciate your passion in Omni, in the best VR technology, in the future gameplay. Please contact us for a Hero Omni.

    Best wishes and best regards to Omni fan: [redacted]

    The Hero Sports Team
    Looks like shipping and after support issue in the Asia area has been resolved.
    As per your "Privacy Policy", I assume that you shared our data with Hero Sports for the purpose of processing our orders (Use of Collected Information).
  • giroudfgiroudf Posts: 127
    edited December 2016
    common, if they can sell 7000$ a product that they promise to deliver for 600 to you, there is not a second to hesitate. That's why the proposal for refund PLUS interest.
    Logic would be that the money provided by kickstarter would be gone after 3 years in production ongoing. So they now potentially sit on a huge pile of money (4000 x 7000= 28MM is better than 10'000 x 600= 6MM).
    don't look further.
    It is even sillier that if they sell 7000$ an omni to B2B, they could easily deliver the kickstarter by funding the loss with each 7000$ omni sold.
    The problem is there is probably a lot more of kickstarter+pre-order than there is B2B items sold (10'000 vs 4000 ?)
    And let's admit that you would not pay 7000$ for an item that tons of people would get for 1000$ (new official price of omni after increase)
    so there is probably exclusivity clause going on here.
    It seems the Virtualizer followed the same path years ago..(it cost now 5000$)
    That is exactly the amount of money that was missing it their last excuse: (post 85 of this thread)
    "We did not raise a $15MM-$20MM financing round, as we had intended"

    It takes them dozen of post to bullshit us about shipment, support, warranty before finally putting the real reason over the table.
    Now we got the magnitude. and you must admit we do not have the weight to fight.
    If I would an US kickstarter or pre-rder I would rush to get my money back....
    Best X-mas gift you can do to yourself.

  • @giroudf - The argument you raise is at complete odds with the conclusion you come to. You're telling US kickstarters/preorders to get some $500-$800 back when you've just stated that they are due to be given a $7000 piece of hardware? And on top of that, it's a $7000 piece of hardware that may be getting cut off from sale to regular consumers? That, to me, says exclusivity premium. I may not get a decent Xmas present, but I might be able to afford a new car by my birthday.
  • giroudfgiroudf Posts: 127
    edited December 2016
    the only problem is you do not know when you get it (Q4 2017 ?) or even if you will get it.
    and when you get it, it will be just an heavy stylish obsolete paperweight (no support for game, almost no community behind, and no company behind)
    and the resale value will turn to be instantly 0.
    and if in the meantime, Virtuix changed to another company , there are chances the new company will not refund the debt of the old one.

    If like me, the money spend is already spent, and you don't need it, so you could go that way and wait. it is just for fun
    If your intent is to get what you paid for, getting the omni, is half of the thing and you know almost for sure now, you will never get the other half.

    the only reason that the value of the B2B omni is set at 7000 (to be confirmed) , is because that is the calculated value of the ROI (return on investement) for somebody who could build a business on it.
    it is probably based on the average price of an arcade installation.

  • giroudfgiroudf Posts: 127
    edited December 2016
    it is as silly as making the price of the omni based on the value of its weight of plastic
  • GeonsGeons Posts: 5
    Need some information about the. deadline of the refund program.
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