BRINGING THE OMNI TO EUROPE

Hi Guys,

when I heard, that the Omni is not going to be shipped anywhere outside of the U.S. I was very shocked and frustrated. From any obstacles a VR tradmill is confronted from its development to the deployment, the shipping and transport should be the least problem in the 21st century.
My goal is to support the Virtuix-Team and arrange the entire transport of one or even more containers from china to Europe. I will hire a freight forwarder for transporting the container from a european harbor to a central city where we backers and pre-orderers can pick it up with vans, trailers trucks, etc. if we unite the costs will be very low! Please write in this thread if you are in and where you are from to find a good solution for the destination! If we are enough we can get our Omnis to Europe. I guarantee a transparent organisation and a refund of the money if there is some left after the project. To make this financal transaction safe for you I will put this on kickstarter but for now, please enlist here.

Regards

Daniel
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Comments

  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    Now this is a proper response to the issue. Its constructive and even suggests a possible solution, and a plausible one at that. It's not some hate speech or conspiracy theory. Bravo Daniel.

    I hope something can be worked out for you guys.
  • I'd be interested, but think it's a little naive. You are aware that Virtuix has already sold the omnis to other companies aren't you? They even refused to ship to US addresses (for people ordering from outside the US). I really doubt they'd go for this.

    My nearest major city is Glasgow.
  • SzeligaSzeliga Posts: 7
    edited December 2016
    gmcnorton said:

    I'd be interested, but think it's a little naive. You are aware that Virtuix has already sold the omnis to other companies, aren't you? They even refused to ship to US addresses (for people ordering from outside the US). I really doubt they'd go for this..

    Same here I don't think it will happen. I think the factor is a price we paid for our units, is just simply too low and they would lose a lot of money on each and every unit they would sell to us for that price. I think I preordered my set for around $700. To be fair I would pay this amount second time if they just would be honest with us and give us real offer with ETA for our units.

    So dear Virtuix, @admin, although You pissed me off incredibly I still believe in You. I know You have got something no other company has - ready product and production line. I can understand that the basic product was gonna look far simpler and was gonna be far cheaper when is about production costs. I bet fact that Americans choose Trump, and possible trade war with China coming doesn't help either.

    I know it would be difficult to admit that You simply told us some bullshit about lack of support etc, but with customers rage Your decision provoke. I can't see bright future for your company. So I think far better option would be to offer new terms and conditions(and price) to all of us international buyers. If we will agree, that's ok, if not we can take our refund.

    As far as I understand current terms and conditions for preorders (not sure about backers) saying that You can offer us refund whenever You want so that shouldn't expose You more for any possible lawsuits.

    I think great part of us wold agree for that. Let be honest. If somebody have PC good enough to run Oculus/Vive, and HMD itself it can't be a poor person. If somebody paying couple hundred $ for non-existing product he/she need to have a reasonable income. (BTW: I by myself working on the warehouse so don't think Im a millioner). You would make money and we Would have what we want. Please reconsider. You own something to Your backer, to people who founded. And a little to preorder customers like me who definitely help You as wall.

    What is the worst for me is fact that You make me believe that in near future I will be able to immerse myself in a game so much that real word wont exist. You promise me level of immersion even best game on vive with teleportation system wont be able to provide. And now, I don't see that's happening till 2020...

    Please even if that won't happen at least reply for my post. I think it will be at least 4th I writing after I received a refund email and not even once You reply to me. Same for email to customer service - but there I still waiting.

    Guys, If somebody thinks similar to me and its ready to pay more for his omni maybe it would be worth to post it as well. Let them see they have got other option, other solution!

    If all I thinking is wrong and what Zash propose gonna work my nearest city is London
  • adminadmin Posts: 166
    edited December 2016
    Hi all, Jan here. I realize my words are falling onto deaf ears and are depicted as lies, although I cannot state the truth more bluntly: it is insane to think that a small company of 15 people can just launch a big and complex product in every country around the world. We thought we could do it, but we had to admit to ourselves in the last few weeks that we just can't. It would be suicide. This has nothing to do with the cost of initial shipping: sure, many of you would be willing to pay more to get the units delivered. No big deal. What is the big deal is having thousands of Omnis and customers in countries all over the world. Just think about that. No one of you is going to send us an email when something breaks? No one of you is going to ask us to get your Omni fixed? Hell, WE would want to get your Omni fixed. We would not want to have unfixed, broken Omnis in the field. Do you really believe that a small company is able to support thousands of Omnis and customers in foreign markets? It's not realistic. For the longest time I had a mental picture in my mind of the Omni being a typical consumer electronics device that can be shipped all over the world. But it's not true - it's a huge, complex, high-end device. I had to admit that. I hope you guys can accept that as well. I do not know what else I can say other than that I am terribly sorry and that we need to move past this dark and disappointing time. It's especially hard for me, because nothing is more painful to build up a community of supporters, to then disappoint those who supported me in the first place. It's incredibly painful and not something that anyone would plan for. Our dream is intact: to get a VR setup with an Omni in every household. It's just going to take us much longer to get there. This is a big setback for all of us.
    Regards,
    Jan
  • I would send an email, and I would be prepared to pay shipping cost of replacement parts to and from US. I think many of us would. And many of us would be far happier with that kind of solution that being left behind.

    If so many people would be able to pay ~1000$ for air transport of Omni to europe You don't think they would be able to cover all delivery costs of replacement parts? I can't believe You would need whole omni each and every time when one of parts would break. And if broken parts would by deliver to You in Texas and You wouldn't pay for delivery. I cant imagine why wouldn't you be able to provide this kind of international support. You wont driving around USA and repairing people's Omni. I believe You will use some courier service to deliver them to You.
  • Jan
    I personally have been as critical has anybody about the delays and shift of priorities throughout the omni's production. I believe this last statement probably more then any statement made by the company. As the Omni grew bigger and more complex I began to be concerned with the necessary infrastructure to support the product. Without a doubt we can all agree the omni's evolved into a different monster all together. Sir regretfully you will never be able to apologize enough to ease the disappointment felt by the kickstarter's and backers. As long as the decision was made for the good of the company in my opinion you owe no apologies to anybody. This is not a matter of We Are shipping half of the product made too a Capitol investor as we promised not to do, this is a matter of logistics. But in giving my honest opinion I do believe a voucher for the initial market price of $699 to the foreign buyers that have lost their opportunity to get the product would be a sign of good faith from the company that you are going to work hard for a worldwide release. I believe that would ease the company of the financial loss as well as assure foreign buyer's of your goodwill and intent and it's as easy as keeping a list. IF THE SITUATION AS A COMPANY NEVER CHANGES then they at least know you had thier best intentions. And if it does change they get thier product at a better then market price. Making thier initial loan to the company (that you have kindly returned with 3 % interest) still a worthwhile investment with a reward still attached. Just my opinion, But Jan and all of the team at Virtuix I do wish you continued success.
  • SlopeySlopey Posts: 24
    edited December 2016
    admin said:

    Hi all, Jan here. I realize my words are falling onto deaf ears and are depicted as lies, although I cannot state the truth more bluntly: it is insane to think that a small company of 15 people can just launch a big and complex product in every country around the world.

    Jan - in the interests of clarity, can you explain the comment on your Australian partner/distributor/retailer website which states clearly, and in bold text, that there will be no non-commerical sales of the Omni worldwide?

  • adminadmin Posts: 166
    edited December 2016
    We have suspended consumer sales on our website to focus on our backlog. Currently we have no plans to bring back consumer sales. The delivery of Kickstarter and pre-order units in the US will continue as planned.
  • SlopeySlopey Posts: 24
    Many thanks for the clarification.
  • steffen1980steffen1980 Posts: 89
    edited December 2016
    That's impossible. First you provide me and others with the definitively information which omni which i get and think to others in europe, too. We doesn't paid our money to produce your Omni only for US peoples and an i never accept your offer. That's miles away from your "own" Terms and Conditions. You finance the production of Omni and the preparing to ship with all our money. And we also doesn't pay for get only 3 % back. So i do not need to accepts this. What do you want? what is your problem? That takes between 2 oder 3 seconds longer to give over the packets to UPS International or the same time when ship to US people. Do you think you must drive trucks? That's do all UPS!

    You send us an offer but i doesn't accept your offer as your own terms and conditions.

    I haven't paid the money to borrow you or something tricky. And i do never accept your laughable 3% joke.




    We pay for all shipping costs both times. Everything is okay when we have an long delay. If you make it bigger and bigger that is your own thing you have to calculate.

    I decline your offer / request completely and i wait for the shipping costs for my order number # 2082.






  • You also produce your Omni with our help and money. In the last second you try to stop this. Sorry but this is impossible and not the thing i've paid for. We paid you for shipping after we finance your production for only US people. Sorry but i do never accept your laughable request.
  • AdminoAdmino Posts: 38
    Morning all.

    Practically speaking, Virtuix are giving us a choice of either refund or no refund. Whichever you choose, you won't get an Omni from them. I hope that that situation may change in the future, but as of now you can choose to take your refund or just don't. Personally, I'd just take the money.

    Morally speaking, Virtuix are already bankrupt.

    I wish them luck, and maybe in the future I might purchase a device from them, if I haven't already purchased a different device.
  • I think that Virtuix is going to reevaluate the product and try to redesign it as a more consumer friendly device .I think we can all agree that the current product is more of a commercial product to start with now. Hopefully of that's the case the turn around on a new product will be much quicker as they are more experienced now.
  • I'm a bad beaver.
  • Why are you a bad beaver sands?
  • ZashZash Posts: 9
    To be fully honest I never expected some serious sort of support, warranty or return. I don't think anyone of the community thought, that the omni is an item like a phone which you can send back to amazon for free to get a replacement within a few days. I was sure that if anything isn't working properly or breaks it's up to myself or the cooperation of the community to get it fixed. beside all of blinding hopes we are not naive.
    I fully understand you Virtuix-Guys but please understand us, too. A cancellation out of the blue is the worst thing in this situation. please talk to us before you make such a hard decision. For example. please give us some figures. Please tell us honestly how many omnis are ordered so far and how many you produced and of course how many of your orders came from Europe so we can see things from your point of view. All what we want is to be honesty and a cooperative way to handle this issue. We are all reasonable, smart people which supported you in the past and will do in the future for our big dream. >ou want us to pay more? fine, we'll find a way. you want to find a way t deal with warranties? fine, we'll find a way. Do you have any idea how crappy most of the support of major companies is and they are still selling stuff? this community will help itself with problems but please listen and speak with us and don't turn your back on us.
  • JorgenJorgen Posts: 108
    I do not accuse Virtuix of lies or anything, but the reasons you offer do not convict me...
    It is absolutely possible to provide units without guaranties of return : it is done with many products and many of us would accept that.
    And, yes, if a pod breaks or anything, most people would accept to order one and have it shipped at his own expense.
    So strictly refusing to send any of the units to foreign countries for support reasons does not make much sense in my opinion.
    And you say you fear for your reputation if many Omnis were broken and unusable worldwide... just look how you just blew this reputation with your actions...

    I have no doubt you thought a great deal about it... but you didn't involve your community in the process.... making it unacceptable as it is...
    Kickstarter allowed you to create a strong community of believers : do not blow it up with a panic move.
    This has a bad taste of "Oculus sold to Facebook without asking anybody" to me...
  • steffen1980steffen1980 Posts: 89
    edited December 2016
    http://www.emons.de/transport-spedition-international/usa-transporte.html that could bei an Option for germany. I think Services like this are available in other european countries, too. I found many of these services wen i searched for. So it's could and should help virtuix to Ship to everywhere. Why Virtuix doesn't try to search for students or something short workers, we could pay for to take over the logistic work. I think also we have here many of backers and pre-orderers which can work maybe in holidays for free to help virtuix out of the hell for the logistics. But i could not accept your offer with your refund request. We all Europeans and the rest of the worlds has give you the money to produce the Omni. You have finally produced the Omni and before you reach very fasten your kickstarter goal. Than you show us all the packages and that they are ready to ship. Your colleagues Provider also with the Information that the omni, shown on the Homepage is the one we receive. You also send to all other US-Only backers and pre-orderers at final. And you think we should accept this really? You doesn't need more time to book your logistic for US everywhere in the world for what we pay completey.



    I do not accept the offer. Thats completely inacceptable. That's really not an realistic reason.

    We worked all into your project and pay with the money what we provides to you, so you are beeing able to poduce the Omni. In the last month we never heard about logistic issue or something. In the last second we've got your eMail-request, but for sure i could not accept this request. I see no reason why i and the rest of the world should accept this and i do not accept this. I think it's possible to find out an international logistic service to help out Virtuix out of this misere without making additional costs to them.

    I Do not accept the refund.

  • steffen1980steffen1980 Posts: 89
    edited December 2016
    I can also repair many things and i can live without guaranties of return. We can find our one way and maybe a few of us are be able to provide with an european and worldwide service. It's easy to find an service point for omni all over the world and logistics. We have many options to solve this very easy. We also can find Partners worldwide i think and we should never give up.

    I see no reason to accept your refund.
  • FR3DFR3D Posts: 18
    I don't need your support, I don't need shipping. Tell me where my Omnies are and I will go there and carry them home by myself !

    Most of us are engeneers like me - we don't need your support !!!!

    I think you are a lyer.I'm sure you sold virtuix omni to investors and these investors is not interested in shipping omnis.
    looks like Palmer and Facebook.

    worst regards FR3D
  • But this make no difference if they sold or not. We payed for "our" omnis an no one can force us to accept this offer.
  • DanteMDanteM Posts: 205
    FR3D said:

    Most of us are engeneers

    engineers*
    We are? I didn't know there was a Omni Virtuix Backing group that led us to know the community was mostly engineers cool... I mean I'm not, not unless you could Software Engineer as an engineer (which it isn't)
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    DanteM said:

    FR3D said:

    Most of us are engeneers

    engineers*
    We are? I didn't know there was a Omni Virtuix Backing group that led us to know the community was mostly engineers cool... I mean I'm not, not unless you could Software Engineer as an engineer (which it isn't)
    HA! I am a software "Engineer" as well. My business card even says "Lead Engineer" Two of my good friends are actual engineers one has a masters in mechanical and the other her doctorate in electrical engendering. Then there is lolly old me with his associate degree from a community college with a title of lead engineer. Needless to say it drives them crazy. While I think its funny as hell i also think its stupid and unfair to actual engineers.

    Now that's not saying that legitimate software engineers don't exist. People working on ground breaking neural network based AI, or massively parallel systems for predictive modeling, and so on. To say the least that is NOT what I do.
  • Don't let them cheat us. It's impossible as they have produces the Omni and start to shipping. So there is no need to accept this offer. They have send us the Omni ASAP, the order number you have. Please be carefully and never accept this cheat!
  • Don't let them cheat us. It's impossible as they have produces the Omni and start to shipping. So there is no need to accept this offer. They have send us the Omni ASAP, the order number you have. Please be carefully and never accept this cheat!

    steffen1980, if you refuse the refund, you are just forfeiting your money for nothing. Virtuix is not under any legal obligation to do anything other than refund your order. I would imagine that what they will do is turn over any unclaimed refunds to the State of Texas as unclaimed property. That will completely absolve them of any responsibility and if you are a foreign buyer, then good luck ever getting your money. It would be foolish to refuse it.
    --------------------------------------
    Cheez\/\/iz
    Omni Backer #40!
    Rift Backer #2,770 (That was a good one!)
    Middle Tennessee
    --------------------------------------
  • FR3DFR3D Posts: 18
    @CheezWiz
    CheezWiz said:


    Don't let them cheat us. It's impossible as they have produces the Omni and start to shipping. So there is no need to accept this offer. They have send us the Omni ASAP, the order number you have. Please be carefully and never accept this cheat!

    steffen1980, if you refuse the refund, you are just forfeiting your money for nothing. Virtuix is not under any legal obligation to do anything other than refund your order. I would imagine that what they will do is turn over any unclaimed refunds to the State of Texas as unclaimed property. That will completely absolve them of any responsibility and if you are a foreign buyer, then good luck ever getting your money. It would be foolish to refuse it.
    OK - I've learned - never trust american companies, never order something from american companies, and never back something on kickstarter, because customer have absolutely no rights in america !.
    ( well I'm happy within good old europe - customers are like kings here )
    I will buy in japan and china instead - @ indigogo I always got what I backed !
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    edited December 2016
    So @FR3D your blaming this on the fact that Virtuix is an American company and in Europe customers are kings? Well how about Cyberith refusing to give refunds and only allowing backers to put there Kickstarter pledge towards the newly priced $6000 Virtualizer which is based in Austria. Now that is despicable, Virtuix is giving full refunds. So much for your "customers are like kings" theory.

    ever trust american companies, never order something from american companies

    That's a very ignorant statement. Hope you don't own a Rift or have a steam account.
  • @FR3D is correct, we seem to have very few consumer rights in comparison to Europeans.
    However, I have noticed that every time I have someone from the EU or Canada buy something from me on eBay, they ask me to lie on the customs form.
    It seems those protections come at a cost in taxes and tariffs. I always refused to do so because since 9/11, they take all that stuff very serious.
    --------------------------------------
    Cheez\/\/iz
    Omni Backer #40!
    Rift Backer #2,770 (That was a good one!)
    Middle Tennessee
    --------------------------------------
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    I am not saying that he is wrong on that aspect, he is correct. I was simply pointing out that backing something on kickstarter has its risks regardless of what country that company is from and that it could have been allot worse than getting a full refund plus 3%.

    You bring up a good point about the added protections coming at a costs. That's interesting about your eBay sales, i guess they want the protection but don't want to pay for it, i guess that's just human nature though. Also smart move not lieing about that crap its just not worth it.
  • steffen1980steffen1980 Posts: 89
    edited December 2016
    Let us provide with our US adresses, where we are able to take over the freight with own hands. What is with this world, you can never trust promises....... and i also doesn't want any warranty. I can also provide you with an contact Adress.in california.
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