I'm out

JoeJoe Posts: 160
I've gone from a huge critic of Virtuix, to a bit of a sympathizer, to spending my nights trying to develop prefabs for unity to help unify touch and motion, as well as researching shoe replacement ideas and such. For those of us that bought this to support the company, as consumers...to have things like the shoes jump 40 dollars in price EACH is painful when trying to get enough equipment for our families to use the device.

When I bought into Omni, Oculus was the front runner in the VR world (Vive wasn't even a thing if I recall right). I'd purchased a Rift in anticipation of getting my shiny Omni months later, and invested in apps for the Rift, thinking I'd bought into a supported ecosystem.

When the latest Omni first party games didn't support rift, I shrugged it off. Other games that supported Rift and wasd worked, and I was happy with that. I also was heads down working on my own experiences, and had just gotten touch control working in game with a sword, while running around on an Omni. I was cleaning that up and bug fixing hoping for a release this week.

Then I get the mail about the new SDK:
1) They are breaking back compat. That's ok...
2) They are not testing, or supporting rift. Ugh..
3) They do not recommend I upgrade if I have a rift --> Well that's another level then..if I upgrade I could be in a position where i lose out on support if things go sideways. I'm not clear on if I can flash 'back', so....I'm stuck.

If I don't upgrade my firmware, I don't get the better tracking. If I upgrade my SDK to get whatever fixes are in there (plus the tracking) I get out of sync with the firmware. If I stay back on the current firmware, anything new that gets developed (which they say that by working with arcades, that benefit will flow down to us)..I won't be able to use.

Essentially the promises of Omni working with all headsets is broken, as of this release. Any work I do won't work if someone upgrades, so my market to develop for just collapsed. I've already invested about a grand in peripherals and for my Omni, to have to drop another 600 on a vive setup, plus rebuy my games and deal with selling my Occulus (which I like better than Vive)...it's just too much of an investment.

So I'm out. I'll continue my own personal development on my Omni for my own uses.


Comments

  • JoeJoe Posts: 160
    For completeness, this is the mail for the firmware update. Emphasis mine:

    We are pleased to inform you that we have completed a major upgrade of the Omni firmware, resulting in a more robust movement detection algorithm. Specifically, our updated motion library now allows for a much larger analog speed range, from a slow crawl to a full-out sprint.

    If you wish to update your system to the new firmware, please follow the steps below. This firmware update includes a significant overhaul of our low-level sensor fusion algorithms, which makes the upgrade incompatible with our previous games and software. •Visit our games and resources download page at http://www.virtuix.com/consumer-games-85gn1qda03/.
    •Download the latest version of Omni Connect via the download button (v1.3.). Once downloaded, go to “Check For Updates” and click “Update All” (be sure to connect your Tracking Pods via USB).
    •Download the updated versions of our Virtuix games (note: the prior versions of our games will no longer work with the upgraded firmware).
    •We now have an external Omni Calibration Application to switch between coupled and de-coupled navigation modes, and to calibrate the Omni for de-coupled navigation. Download the calibration application if you intend to use the Omni in de-coupled mode.
    •If you are creating an application for the Omni and have downloaded our SDK in the past, you’ll receive an email with the updated SDK packages. Be sure to update the SDK in any Omni applications you are developing.

    A few words of caution:

    •Our games, calibration app, and SDK are no longer tested with the Oculus Rift and are not compatible with Oculus Touch. We do not recommend you upgrade the firmware and games if you are using Oculus Rift.

    Some third-party games that natively support the Omni will not work with the new firmware until the game developer releases an updated version based on the new firmware. Please check with the game developer if and when such a new release is forthcoming.

    That’s it! We hope you enjoy our improved motion library. Please don’t hesitate to reach out if you have any questions.

    Best regards,

    The Virtuix Team
  • JoeJoe Posts: 160
    This is the SDK mail (emphasis again mine)

    Hi,

    Our records indicate that you have downloaded the Omni SDK in the past. We are pleased to inform you that we have completed a major upgrade of the Omni firmware, resulting in a more robust movement detection algorithm. Specifically, our updated motion library now allows for a much larger analog speed range, from a slow crawl to a full-out sprint. This improvement helps mitigate motion sickness even further, because your application can now accommodate slow players, who move cautiously in your application, without compromising the experience of fast players who move at full sprint speed.

    To take advantage of our improved motion tracking, we recommend you upgrade the Omni SDK in your application. Please download the new SDK packages via the links below:

    Omni SDK Unity

    Omni SDK UE4

    The latest version of Omni Connect and Omni firmware is required, which you can download here. This download page also contains updated Virtuix games (compatible with the new firmware) and an external Omni Calibration Application to switch between coupled and de-coupled navigation modes and to calibrate the Omni for de-coupled navigation.

    Note that our games, calibration app, and SDK are no longer tested with the Oculus Rift and are not compatible with Oculus Touch. We do not recommend you upgrade the firmware and games if you are using Oculus Rift.

    We hope you enjoy our improved motion library! Please don’t hesitate to reach out if you have any questions.

    Best regards,

    The Virtuix Team
  • EVOLEVOL Posts: 123
    I'm unsure what exactly causes the lack of support for the Oculus Touch in this release. As far as I was aware the OMNI never had any Touch support to begin with. I have two OMNI's one setup for Vive and one for Oculus I'll upgrade my Vive system and see what has changed.
  • EVOLEVOL Posts: 123
    edited October 24
    Okay I see the new calibration software probably only supports Vive. (Haven't tested Oculus)
  • yomeryomer Posts: 15
    Hi Joe,
    I'm with you. This is a big slap in the face for us KS backers. I can't believe Jan and Co. decided it was OK to abandon Rift/Touch support. It's not that difficult to keep up with Oculus' SDK. They should be humble enough to realize that they were/are in the same position. They want developers to add native support to their games, they wish they would, and then they go around and not give a damn about supporting what many of us backers have as an only platform, that is extremely hypocritical. I'm very disappointed in this decision, I wish we could somehow united and ask for them to integrate the Oculus SDK back into their products.

    @admin Please get back to us.
  • RABIDRABID Posts: 171
    i don't see what my feet have to do with the touch controls. but its really stupid that their own games ignore rift support
  • EVOLEVOL Posts: 123
    edited October 24
    I somewhat tested the calibration software with Oculus and it seemed to work fine. The headset/controllers worked in the software. I tried to get on the OMNI to complete calibration but my Vive OMNI is out of reach of the Oculus Sensors, so I could not properly calibrate. As long as you have steam installed it should work and I see no reason the OMNI would support the Oculus any less than it did before.
  • It seems like Virtuix itself has a bone out against Oculus. This is likely the result of Hero's purchasing in and stipulating the use of the hardware via draconian software limitations. Fortunately, as it has been said, the movement provided by the Omni has no bearing on any Oculus game so long as it operates under the functionality of the WASD movement style. Native games integrate Oculus support on their own, there is no reason to suspect that this is anything more than a continuation of previously existing Omni policy against Oculus.
  • MarkVMarkV Posts: 46
    Joe, are you remaining "out" or have you messed with the new firmware enough and the Oculus to determine that it's still working ? I think EVOL indicated it was.
  • JoeJoe Posts: 160
    From what I’ve seen, there is a part where a Vive controller is used for calibration. I have no indication of being able to roll the firmware back if it puts me in a bad state. And no official replies. I’m going to email support and see if I have any support if I upgrade anyway and end up bricked or stuck on the new firmware.

    In the past the lack of official occulus support wasn’t as big a deal, because I could stay updated on firmware and there were no breaking changes to speak of. This time it’s a “if you don’t upgrade, you can’t play the new stuff”...and oh bet if you have an occulus we recommend not upgrading.

    I’ve been working with the. steamVR SDKs and OpenVR in unity....it’s incredibly cross VR friendly. I don’t understand how/why they haven’t adopted that approach, especially after what they showed and promoted in Kickstarter. Possibly the deal with the Vr arcade as mentioned, but I don’t understand the business dynamic there of why a third party (Not steamnor Valve) would limit it.

    I’m working on getting the analog controller for Occulus working on the old firmware...if I get that working I’ll have plenty of games for myself to play
  • Simple. Oculus is not a Chinese company. HTC is. Well, Taiwanese.
  • EVOLEVOL Posts: 123
    edited October 26
    The part where a Vive controller is used for calibration is not necessary. You can calibrate without a vive controller, when you don't use a vive controller you must stand in the OMNI and face forward. After calibrating without vive wand you are asked to walk around and verify calibration. With the wand you never enter the OMNI for calibration.

    I will not tell you 100% it's safe to update your firmware with Oculus Touch. However I'm fairly certain it wouldn't be an issue. When we get some software that supports the new firmware and Oculus Touch I will do further testing to verify.
  • MarkVMarkV Posts: 46
    I have both headsets as well, so if you need me to try something, let me know. I have not updated my firmware (because I never the use the Omni).

    I am not surprised if they tie themselves to one HMD (despite it sucking for us). In terms of supporting their arcade business, it makes sense - they don't want to support variable hardware. They will need to be careful with that strategy, because the HMD market is going to change dramatically over the next years and HTC will be leapfrogged at some point.
  • MarkVMarkV Posts: 46
    And Joe, you should wait on the next round of HMDs. Buying into the Vive now (even with the price reduction), seems like a waste of money unless you want to provide software and be able to test with multiple display devices.
  • JoeJoe Posts: 160
    Evol, thankyou that's good to know. Is there anything in there on your updated unit/units that makes it appear you can roll back? My fear is to go forward, and not be able to roll back, then end up stuck.

    MarkV, I agree totally. I looked at a vive setup, to get what I have with Oculus (headset integration, comfort, etc) I'm looking at 700 dollars plus shipping/tax. Which I'd actually spend if I thought I was going to get access to a bunch of Omni content...but really what does the FW update do for consumers? There's what...3 native games for Omni that can take advantage of this? All of the WASD stuff I don't see being improved at all. The 3rd party Omni stuff seems to have gone to Omniverse, and I'm yet to play a 'killer game' on Omni outside of the Travr series.

    I'm going to hang out on the FW I'm on. I'm close to having SteamVR working perfectly, which lets me develop for vive/occulus/Microsft Mixed reality. My friends have played my 'game' with the touch controller and WASD (They don't have Omnis, but they can provide feedback and actually play it). I'll keep developing down that road for my friends and I. I'll keep working on the HID hacking to see if I can get the touch controller working as well




  • EVOLEVOL Posts: 123
    No I don't see anyway to downgrade firmware in the OMNI Connect software sadly.

    WASD may be improved with this update but probably not, I haven't used WASD for awhile now. Gamepad mode is definitely improved.
  • JoeJoe Posts: 160
    no firmware downgrade definitely is scary for me...if I upgrade and go against their 'suggestion' then am I still supported? I'll have to email them.

    What uses gamepad mode that is available to us outside of the Travr stuff?

  • EVOLEVOL Posts: 123
    Vorpx and a handful of vr games with gamepad support.
  • MarkVMarkV Posts: 46
    Well, keep at it. This forum needs to stay alive. It was nice to have an influx of new voices briefly, although I think their enthusiasm has wavered.
  • EVOLEVOL Posts: 123
    I plugged my firmware updated Omni into the PC I use for the Oculus/Omni combo. Which is still running the older Omni Connect software. I checked to see if I was able to downgrade firmware with it. The old software showed the new firmware and did not have an issue with it, so I was unable to downgrade with it. I was going to test out the calibration software and some gaming. However this machine just got the Windows Creators update which apparently broke rift sensor drivers. While trying to fix the problem I tried many things unsuccessfully. Then I ran the Oculus Setup and selected repair which apparently re-downloads 1.8tb. My internet is painfully slow so that will take a day or so... I'll get back to this when I can...
  • EVOLEVOL Posts: 123
    I got Oculus setup downloaded and installed. Now that the sensors drivers are working. I ran the calibration software successfully.

    First I tried Omni Arena for the hell of it. I had never tried the Vive version before on the Rift. It did work sort of except my position was in the ground and the guns were pointed wrong. I doubt it but I don't know if this had anything to do with the Omni being on the far side of my Oculus sensor boundary. (Like literally on the edge.) Decoupled was working though.

    Then I tested the only game I know of available with Oculus and the new sdk/firmware support "VRZ Torment" this game worked with the Omni and Oculus exactly like on the Vive.

    Update at your own risk! However from my testing I'm convinced its safe and I will perform the firmware update on my Oculus Omni tomorrow.
  • EVOLEVOL Posts: 123
    I just ran from Zombies a total of 4 miles, on my Oculus/Omni unit. The Omni worked great but the Oculus tracking was pretty glitchy spinning around in the Omni. I have not had this issue with my Vive. This was the first time I've really played a game full tilt in the Oculus/Omni unit. I have 3 sensors in the traditional layout (two front, one rear corner) hung from the celing pointed down at the Omni. Can anyone comment on there experience running full tilt and turning on the Oculus/Omni? I need to know if I should move my sensors in closer or if the Oculus tracking is just not able to keep up.
  • JoeJoe Posts: 160
    I sent mail to Virtuix tonight to see what they say. They advertised this as working with Occulus (heck they said it'd be agnostic, even working with gearVR and such). I asked if I upgrade and it doesn't work, would I be supported. My fear is upgrading the FW, then not having the SDK work as expected for my development. But if I don't upgrade, then I'm not getting the Firmware update goodness (or any future bug fixes, which basically means I'd be out of support). Since support for the device is 1 year I believe, I'd expect to get firmware updates for at least a year to support the scenarios that were advertised when I bought the thing.

    I've not had any issues with my current Omni setup and Oculus sensors (2 sensors about 90 degrees apart). If they were going to drop support for everything but Vive, they should've packaged a Vive in any order being sent to someone that didn't have a Vive. You might say that sounds ridiculous, but so does...well pretty much what Virtuix has done from the start. There's a reason businesses don't advertise one thing and then do another.

    "It did work sort of except my position was in the ground and the guns were pointed wrong. " - That's uh...not what I'd call working.

    One further challenge, as of this point...is are any of the games from the omniverse catalog coming to consumers...or did they just have the userbase upgrade to a new firmware, then only release stuff for it through the arcade omniverse distribution system...thereby breaking back compat and locking people out of games for the future.

    The messaging when the arcade market was embraced was 'this will be great for our backers and pre-order customers, because it'll incentivize devs to develop for the Omni, and you'll have access to those games' (paraphrased previous convos). I'm seeing games come out for commercial...but seeing nothing for the backers.

    If they say they'll at least support the product if I upgrade, then I'll do that and continue with my private game dev at least.

    I looked into FreePIE and HID hacking the oculus touch controllers to get things integrated (getting the Omni signals is actually super easy). FreePIE only works one way currently with the Touch controllers (and Vive) so that's a non starter. Even if I plumbed the pathway from the Omni into it via a plugin, I couldn't write back out to a Touch/Vive controller. I'm still investigating...but I see why the Omni doesn't do it yet.
  • EVOLEVOL Posts: 123
    I had one developer tell me the new consumer firmware was still not the same as the Omniverse is using. Storm Bringer Studios however updated there game (VRZ Torment) the same day I asked if they would implement the new firmware/sdk into the consumer version. I think we will eventually get the Omniverse games from most developers but Virtuix could do a better job of making the transition from Omniverse to consumers easier for developers.
  • EVOLEVOL Posts: 123
    Joe said:

    I looked into FreePIE and HID hacking the oculus touch controllers to get things integrated (getting the Omni signals is actually super easy). FreePIE only works one way currently with the Touch controllers (and Vive) so that's a non starter. Even if I plumbed the pathway from the Omni into it via a plugin, I couldn't write back out to a Touch/Vive controller. I'm still investigating...but I see why the Omni doesn't do it yet.

    I've finally got this working. It was no small feat and will take me sometime to write up a tutorial if I can even remember what all I did. I have achieved Vive touchpad to Virtuix Omni emulation. I have not tested Touch Thumbstick to Virtuix Omni yet but it should work within SteamVR.
  • SkaarahSkaarah Posts: 3
    I've made some progress as well but I haven't actually gotten it to work yet. Currently I'm following some tutorials for using freePie + sixense_fake + hydra drivers + openVr input emulator. It's certainly not clean and even less clear steps on how to do it. I'm thinking of just starting from scratch. Or perhaps I can try again at writing a steamvr driver that will accept input from the omni.
  • flamaestflamaest Posts: 77
    Just got mine out of the box and now I see this, after years of waiting!!!! My Oculus cameras just went up.... Confused and concerned.....
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