It's pretty dim in here, shed some light please

I've been surrounded by obscurities in the search for my possible Omni. Oh, the day of its arrival with an SDK will be glorious, if and only if. I have to say something, I want to see what problems you are running into every so often. With the time I have spent waiting on promises, I begin to expect results and condolences. Let's get this thing in peoples' homes! Let's get some dates! Thank you!

Comments

  • DM_36DM_36 Posts: 8
    I have to agree. I requested that we pre-order an OMNI for work and I am constantly having to tell people how the estimated release date has been moved back. I think that if you buy something on pre-order you don't expect to be waiting this long. In my case it is nearly a year now and I am guessing there are other posters here who have waited even longer. I agree with the above post and several older forum threads, we are reaching the point where we need some kind of definitive timeline not promises. We are all excited to use the OMNI (it looks great) and have backed the product so a delivery schedule in my opinion is now overdue. If someone from Virtuix could reply to us all and offer us some concrete answers it would be much appreciated.
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    OK first of @DM_36 what do you do that you can get your company to buy an Omni!?

    I am not saying I don't want a hard release data to be announced because I do. But I have been thinking about this and I think everyones unrest is do to the nature of kickstarter itself. Its somewhat of a double edged sword. On one side the Omni might never have gotten to the point it's at or perhaps it would have just years to get here. On the other hand people are used to a product being announced with a release date. The phone companies have really shortened this timeframe in the past few years. So we as consumers are used to something being announced and a few months, or even weeks, later have it actually released. So not only are these products already designed and tested before they are even announced but are actually already being manufactured if not already on a boat being shipped around the world.

    This is not the case with kickstarter, we are getting in on the ground floor, so any delays are right out there in the open. There are delays for most products but we as consumers rarely see them because we have not been previewed to the multi year development process like we are with a kickstarter campaign, all see is the end result.

    I for one have been fairly pleased with Virtuix. Sure they pushed the date back by quite a bit, but I would rather wait a little longer and have a better product then have them rush something out. Especially when you consider that if they did not do a kickstarter we would just be blissfully unaware that this product could have even existed or we would be waiting another N number of years to get it. Not to mention that there is not even a consumer ready HMD out there to use it with.

    I also think that Virtuix has been doing a pretty good job at keeping us up-to-date on the process with their monthly blog posts. I find it nice to have some relatively convincing evidence that progress is being made and there not all just doing hookers and blow on top of a huge pile of our money.

    So I am glad I had a chance to back them and help this product come to fruition and will gladly wait for them to do there job and make the best dam OTD that can currently be made. If you need more to justify the wait just thank your bank account Virtuix has not gown the way of Sixence.
  • The reality is if they make a bunch of these and screw it up, it's not like they can send out a patch over the web.
  • DM_36DM_36 Posts: 8
    I am a 3D developer so the technology is very exciting to me. I also understand that they need to ensure that the product is ready to launch before releasing it and that is a valid point. However I did not purchase the Omni on the kickstarter, I pre-ordered from the Virtuix website that does not mention the kickstarter so wasn't really expecting to have to wait this long. The original estimate for delivery that I new of was before last Christmas. I have also had the Oculus dk2 (I know the consumer version is not out yet) for some months now because because we purchased that to use with the Omni and it is a great piece of hardware. As I am sure the Omni will be, the trailers look fantastic. I also have no doubt that the team at Virtuix are working very hard to get the product ready for launch. However it is not unreasonable to ask for some kind of timeline even if the release is further away than we would like at least then we would have a date to look forward to.
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    I pre-ordered from the Virtuix website
    I will say thats a little different since you pre-ordered it on the website. I can understand your frustration. However I think you jumped the gun a bit getting the DK2 befor you had an actual release date for the Omni. Though I can completely understand that. It has taken every fiber of my being to muster enough self control to not buy a DK2. BUT I HAVE BEEN STRONG!!! lol

    I would love a timeline as well, but I would rather have nothing than some random date they pulled out of there ass' that gets perpetually pushed every time it gets close. Companies that do that bother me. It not only disappoints all there customers over and over again but it tells me that they either have no idea what the hell they're doing or that they are willing to tell their customers any line of bullshit that they think will keep them happy. In either case it not reassuring. At least they are being honest with us and properly setting our expectations.

    But it is what it is, so for now I will wait spending entirely to much time on this forum and reddit.
  • DM_36DM_36 Posts: 8
    Well hopefully someone from Virtuix will give us an update soon. The DK2 has been really useful so far it will just be allot better when we can have a more natural user input for walking etc though. The consumer version looks great though (tracked controllers etc) but I must admit I have been impressed with the quality of the DK2.
  • We're working hard to get the Omni shipped ASAP. It is true we've made some upgrades and enhancements that pushed back our production schedule. I apologize for those delays, but we definitely wouldn't delay the Omni launch without a valid reason. We're extremely satisfied with the recent improvements and we hope you will be too. We are now on track to begin shipping the Omni this fall.
  • DM_36DM_36 Posts: 8
    Thank you for the reply @KellCam_Virtuix we are all looking forward (excited is probably more precise) to receiving our orders.
  • ExczeExcze Posts: 16
    I think it would be nice to get a rough overview of what still have to be done.
    We saw many Pictures of the biggest plastic mold parts, but I asked myself if this is a big step or if there are 560 further molds which have to be made.
    So maybe some Information in form of a timeline or as rough Points, like this:
    - producing molds for the ring, the supports and 20 smaller parts
    - production of the plastic parts
    - Assembling of first omnis and Quality tests
    - getting ready of shipping procedure
    - etc.
    -
    I'm sure there is much more to do than this few Points.
    I belive, showing what you use the time for and how much time things like this use up would please many backers and pre-orderer.
    Sometimes you work hard the whole day with things which are important but not so easy seen.
  • sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,069
    Hi @Excze, those are good points.
    What is included in the Kickstarter updates is surely only the tip of the iceberg. There is no doubt a lot more progress being made, and more work to be done behind the scenes, but I think Virtuix is striking the right balance of information to share each month - not everyone would be interested to read all the technical details, and of course some things must be kept confidential to avoid replication by others. It's still surprising how many important changes and developments are being disclosed. For instance the decision to add more clearance between the strut bases was announced back in January - I was able to try it last month and it is a huge improvement! I was able to take longer strides and not worry about kicking the supports. The updates are definitely getting more exciting as we move closer to launch. Let's hope for more good news in the next one!

    Community Manager at Virtuix
  • august_2nd_2015august_2nd_2015 Posts: 2
    edited August 2015
    @KellCam_Virtuix : :sweat_smile: : Thank you for the reply.
    However, on behalf of recent posts such as @DM_36, @sutekiB, and @Excze, I humbly request an informal informative; Extra details about the permanent choices you have made, as in the choice of hardware you went with and are now implementing, would be inspiring.

    just a side note: @Excze left a nice outline, and @DM_36 left some comments that I find particularly exciting. the prospect of immersion and benefits thereof in VR is largely incomplete without this Omni, but imagining the sum of all these VR components I see the possibility of a gestalt experience. To hear that business prospects are actively being sought is wonderful. But business requires a certain, understandable timeline of algebraic composition. personally, I would love a simple explanation of data-point source types, according to recent device drivers, to see how I can go about designing a nice Kalman Filter with any possible sdk for myself.

    Thanks again for the response!
  • ExczeExcze Posts: 16
    I thought about this topic. To visualize your effort, show your progress and please the waiting community, you could make something like a "loading"-visualization.
    I understand that all of the work of the technical People goes into the production. But I'm sure you have a community and social media Manager, which could do this.
    So it wouldn't delay the omni but give the People something to hold on.
    To Show what I mean, I made a ROUGH Picture. Of course there are a lot of more steps and steps of steps, but it should be an Intention.
  • StigzyStigzy Posts: 25
    Wow... That was a good picture and good overview man! That wouldve been nice if they couldve show how far they really are :smile: So looking forward to it!
  • DM_36DM_36 Posts: 8
    @KellCam_Virtuix when you last posted you said you were on track to start shipping in Fall. Is this still the case or has the date moved again? Has anyone received there omni yet?
  • @DM_36 We have pushed back shipping slightly, with our first units expected before the end of the year. We'll have more on this in our upcoming newsletter at the end of this week.
  • I'm personally fine with any shipping schedule that at least attempts to coincide with the release of major HMD devices. Looking forward to the newsletter @KellCam_Virtuix
  • giroudfgiroudf Posts: 127
    edited October 2015
    but if you are too long, people witll turn to KAT-VR, it is coming fast...
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    I still think the KAT-VR folks are crazy if they think they can make that thing at the price point they are aiming for. Just from the amount of materials I would expect it to cost at least $1500USD if not more.

    But even if they can somehow manage to keep the price down the device is fundamentally flawed. The way it is now the cords from the HMD will wrap around the support rod holding you up. I forsee this being a huge problem. It's one things to have the cables twist around themselves, twisting a cable is never a good thing but you can twist a cable quite a bit before you start to run into issues and need to untwist it. However having the cable wrap around something severely limits how long you can use it before you need to stop and unwind it.

    There is only two ways around that, the first is to ditch the wires, I don't see that happening for quite a few years as the HMD screen resolution is going to skyrocket in the cumming years leaving wireless data throughput in the dust, Its currently not even close enough for todays HMD's. The other solution is a custom slip ring built around the support rod, it is not enough to simply have a slip ring next to the support rod as the cable will still wrap around it. Slip rings are expensive to begin with but an HDMI slip ring that can handle 90hz at the needed resolution would be crazy expensive if it can even be done, I have never seen one that can support the specs of the Rift/Vive. Though if they could pull that off it would be a very good solution.


    All that being said the freedom from the lack of a support ring makes KAT-VR look promising, I just don't see it working out for them.
  • giroudfgiroudf Posts: 127
    the cable problem is the same for the omni, so i do not think you can say the KAT-VR is flawed, at least not more than the omni for tat particular point.
    first thing i will do when i receive my omni is to get rid of the harness and ring and turn it into a KAT-VR.
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    The same? I think you need to look again more closely. KAT-VR has that support rod which does allow for a more open design, but also means that the cables will wrap around it. As I said there is currently no way around that.

    Think about it. Let's keep the math simple and say the diameter of the support rod is 1 inch. This means that every time you make a complete turn you will use up 3.14 inches of slack on your cables, which is the best case. It will actually be more because it will wrap around the support rod at an angle. How much slack are you going to have? 1 foot? 2 foot? 5 feet? the more slack the more annoying the cables will be.

    No look at the Omni. The cables will be just be twisting as you turn, unless you do something stupid like tightly fasten them to something above you. You can twist cable for quite some time befor it becomes an issue. How much? well that would depend on the cable its not as cut and dry as wrapping a cable around something.

    Don't get me wrong I am not saying that the Omni has the perfect solution for cable management because they don't. All i am saying is that KAT-VR has, what I would consider a major cable management issue. Also unless you start running around in circles it wont be an immediate problem but it will be a problem much sooner than it would be for the Omni.

    As for as not using the harness and the ring and rigging something up, presumably hanging from the ceiling? I would be interested in hearing about your ideas on how to do that. The main problem I see, disregarding cable management issues, is having enough support along the X and Y axis (presuming Z is up and down). If you just have a safety harness on, secured to the ceiling to preventing you from breaking your leg when you lose your balance and fall and no other support I think it would be far to easy to actually lose your balance regardless of how much practice you have or how good you get at using it. as soon as your center of mass is moved to far from the center of the dish you won't be able to predict when your feet would touch down. That can be very jarring and makes you lose your balance very easily. Ever think there was one more step while walking up the stairs in the dark? Or even worse when you think you're at the bottom and you still have one to go? The height difference on the Omni is not nearly as high as a step but the effect will still be there. This is solved by both the Omni ring and the KAT-VR rigid support. I would love to have something as secure as the Omni ring and as open as the KAT-VR support rod. Though I also want SaO level VR :p
  • Very excited! Glad to hear you're going to start shipping. Very very cool.
  • DM_36DM_36 Posts: 8
    @KellCam_Virtuix when are we likely to start seeing units being shipped on a large scale? I pre-ordered in 2014. Pre-order normally means that the item is nearly ready to go/just needs a new set to come off the production line. Consumer HMDs are now available and I have had the DK2 for some time with the aim of using it together with the OMNI. I asked a similar question several months ago (see above) and think it would be nice for us all to have some idea of delivery. I know lots of people are content to wait but I think having waited/been patient this long an actual estimate would be appreciated. I really like the sound of the product and am looking forward to it being delivered but am getting a little frustrated with things being continually pushed back. I hope you can give us some good news soon.
  • @DM_36 Thank you for your continued patience. We realize the wait has been very long, and while it's important we get the Omni to the highest quality before we ship, we did not intend for it to take this long. I apologize for the delays. We'll have an update soon regarding our production and delivery schedule. We've got just a couple more steps to take before we are able to offer precise shipping dates. This includes making final quality improvements to the Omni, and negotiating production schedules with our China supply chain.

  • TomekTomek Posts: 76
    edited May 2016
    You guys are lucky the Virtualizer looks to be dead. These delays are quite long and the "making final quality improvements to the Omni, and negotiating production schedules with our China supply chain" has been going for quite some time now. I would hope that you can at least commit to late Q3 early Q4? Or at least this year 2016? It is good of course that you want to ship a proper product and not something that needs to be replaced with the next version ASAP. The wait is killing us of course. Without the Touch and this, I find the RIft quite useless :/
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