A Question on Pathfinder

XainXain Posts: 128
Just had a few questions about this Pathfinder program since I didn't stumble upon you guys until some time after the Kickstarter ended and ordered my Omni either last year or the year before. Back when it was 450$ (lucky!)
But looking through some of the old blog posts there were set to be what, 50 Pathfinder units to be made to go out before the rest right? Why?

Is this a kickstarter thing? Where you guys are obligated to give these 50 out to a certain tier of backers? Or is this sort of a use these guys to test out the Omni for flaws before we ship the rest? Also why does it seem like you are only delivering like 10 of them a month if even, are you personally delivering them or something?

Honestly my thought was, "Well I could care less when it ships since Oculus is pussy footing around and will never actually release it." and I'm sure that you guys weren't all too worried about shipping as well since whats an Omni with no HMD? Fast forward to today and not only have Oculus released preorders and a ship date but so have the Vive. Me personally, I will be getting a Vive and it seems now instead i'll have my HMD by April and no Omni to use it with let alone a time frame.

So lets be real, no PR response. My Omni number is around 2700. When you say ramp up your production will you have the ability to fill out hundreds per month or thousands? And are you planning on continuing with your slow shipment of your Pathfinders or are we gonna see a speed increase of that since the HMDs will be here in a month?

Comments

  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    Nice choice with the Vive.

    My understanding is the pathfinder program is basically to do a full, but small production run to streamline the process and validate that there are no major issues with the production version. Its one thing to have to send out 50 replacement units its another thing to have to send out 3000 replacements.
  • XainXain Posts: 128
    Huh... can I be one of those 50? xD
    I take it the 50 pathfinders were chosen from devs who already had an HMD? I suppose that does seem logical, I am still curious as to why all 50 were not delievered at the same time then if that is the case. With the first being shipped back in December and more to come in the coming weeks its kind of odd. They are shipping from China right?
  • My gut feeling is that the Vive will just muddy the waters, complicating compatibility with a basically non-viable lighthouse system. Tracking being superior, I hope all contenders learn from the hardware, but as far as actual execution, it's going to be a failure. Nobody will want to put on a headset and wander around a room blindly. I can just imagine the litigation.
  • XainXain Posts: 128
    You sure have some unreasonable and unfounded views on the Vive, this however is not the place for it. I only wanted to discuss the Omni, Pathfinders and shipping, take your biasm to reddit.
  • gleamingsandsgleamingsands Posts: 306
    edited March 2016
    @Xain Don't get so defensive man, if I'm wrong, time will tell and we'll all be better off for it. Nothing I said was unreasonable or unfounded, at least as far as the added territory they attempted to capture with the full room VR system. I don't think it's a viable format, that's not unfounded, it's a reasonable analysis of the situation given certain static standards regarding what people are generally willing to do. 125 sq ft. can cost, on average, $15,000.00 USD. Very few people are going to be able to dedicate an entire room to that sort of thing, and the alternative is multi-purposing a room to that effect, something that will inevitably lead to dangerous results. People are clumsy, remember that Wii-mote litigation?

    Chill out, market analysis and prediction is the entire basis of the consumer economy, and each of us are entitled to our opinions. Even if it admittedly isn't technically in the right part of the forums. I just wish the Pathfinders had the time to test both products out extensively enough to give us some direction on either one. I'll be getting the Oculus at the end of the month myself.
  • XainXain Posts: 128
    Defensive? Chill out? Are you illiterate? Is reading comprehension beyond you?
    I. Don't. Care.
    I told you once before kindly but since you obviously couldn't understand what I said before pay close attention now:

    This post is not about HMDs, I want to discuss whats going on with the Omni, Pathfinders and Preorder. I gave you a place to go discuss which HMD you believe is better than which. Oculus Rift? HTC Vive? They're both awesome pieces of technology, I just happened to throw my money in with the Vive for certain reasons.
  • gleamingsandsgleamingsands Posts: 306
    edited March 2016
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    Well I am going to have to completely disagree with you there @gleamingsands

    The Lighthouse tracking is currently by far the least expensive, most flexible and dependable tracking system at the consumer level. It can do anything from 180 degree sitting to 360 degree room scale up to 5M^2. There is no opinion there, its all fact. Also you don't need to dedicate a room to VR, though some will. For most people simply moving a coffee table to the side of the room will give most people more than enough space, you don't need 5M^2 its simply the current maximum allowed space.

    Not to mention that Lighthouse is an open standard that any one can use for anything without ever asking Valve or even letting them know, last I checked the only requirement is that you stick to the standard and not modify it.

    Also the litigation argument is weak. People start lawsuit's for spilling coffee on there own lap. Will someone start litigation about breaking a toe or arm or something, eventually yes its inevitable. trampolines are my favorite example of a product that is inherently dangerous and yet they are still for sale and the trampoline market is a tiny fraction of what the VR market will be, hell is right now. If companies stoped making products because they where afraid of someone opening a lawsuit we sure wouldn't be getting the Omni!!
  • @xxann5 A fine argument. I remain unconvinced, but you've managed to state your opinion regarding the Vive with no personal animosity. To be honest, my only argument for Oculus Rift comes from a form of choice supportive bias; I don't really want to have to buy another $800.00 piece of hardware. I just hope that the goal of every developer is to intensely target multi-peripheral compatibility. I do still think it's a long shot that people will want to free roam any room while using the Vive, it just doesn't sit well with me. We'll see this year.
  • "The Lighthouse tracking is currently by far the least expensive, most flexible and dependable tracking system at the consumer level."

    Considering it hasn't been released yet, this is very silly. When they have all been released, and I get them in my hands to try them all (yes I have ordered them all), then I will be convinced.
  • dildil Posts: 11
    I am 1000000000% agree with Xain why 50 units of omni taking soo long. how long they gonna tell the same story they were supposed to do in Jan 2015, Wake Up its March 2016!!!! and they cannot ship 50 units. My order number 3000 and I am expecting by the end of 2016 to be honest when THAT guy said he will ship it Jan 2015.
  • @dil Per the FAQ pre-orders are expected to be shipped during Q2 of this year. virtuix.com/frequently-asked-questions/
  • sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,069
    The Pathfinder program was open to Kickstarter backers to apply, but I don't know what the selection process was. There was no obligation to include backers, it wasn't mentioned during the Kickstarter campaign that I can remember. It's important to get some user testing done before they increase their rate of production - this has nothing to do with the absence of consumer HMDs on the market.
    Community Manager at Virtuix
  • I will say this. The Omni they have produced is an incredible, finished product. Waaaaaay outstripping the initial design from the kickstarter. It's tempting to say feature creep, but then I have to say everything in it feels very necessary for a cohesive experience. Looking at it now, I would have been dissapointed with anything less than what was made.
  • travis1409travis1409 Posts: 131
    Q2 of this year? I HIGHLY doubt it. They have said "Ramp up production" in almost every update for three years or so and I we are still not seeing any kind of shipping dates, schedules or even a realistic projection. If it wasn't for the investment of time I've made I would have already backed out. Getting so tired of unfulfilled promises with these guys. "I understand your frustration" is the standard response when people get angry that they've been waiting three years for a product but they still haven't pushed out a product to anyone but the pathfinders. To top that off, they have been extremely unclear of how long they are going to product test with the pathfinders before they start shipping. Is it going to be another month of testing? Two months? Because anymore than a couple of weeks and there is absolutely no way they are going to get any omnis out by Q2 yet for some reason they are still saying Q2 which will be yet another broken promise and missed deadline.
  • gleamingsandsgleamingsands Posts: 306
    edited March 2016
    @travis1409 Well you may have a point, but there is some serious wisdom in not having released their full product yet, as the release dates for the actual consumer products involved have only just become reality. The end of this month will mark the first version of the Oculus intended for full on consumer use. If Virtuix were a short sighted start-up whose only intention was to make a few bucks on a novel idea, they would have come right out with their original product, relying on a camera to sense the movement of your feet and the DK1 as the predicate product. Because they didn't do this, their product is more likely to stick to the virtual consumer board than if they had done otherwise. We should all be thankful they didn't attempt something like that.
  • travis1409travis1409 Posts: 131
    Yes they came out with a better product but every step along the way they were "ramping up production" setting deadlines and missing them, and putting out misinformation. To their huge credit, they have been fairly transparent with their constant updates but that does not excuse the fact that they have been extremely vague about when the pathfinder program, when it will end, and how many Omnis they will be able to produce and ship per month. Even if they ARE still waiting on the pathfinder to end before they start producing, they could at the very least let us know how long their trial will go and when it's over how quickly they can start shipping Omnis to their backers.
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    misinformation? like what?

    I usually give Virtuix the benefit of the doubt as this is there first product and its an accessory for another product that's not even out yet so waiting has not been a big deal. However I now have a date to get a consumer HMD and it is fast approaching. So I have to agree with you in that they really should communicate when the pathfinder program is going to end and when the real production run will start.



  • travis1409travis1409 Posts: 131
    Saying "Ramping up production" is misinformation after the 10th time you have said it and only now have 50 Omnis in people's homes. Also, the Q2 shipment date I think is doubtful to say the least since Q1 is almost over and the pathfinder program isn't even finished yet, unless it is and they just aren't telling us because no one has said how long they want to beta test.
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    lol, ya that statement has somewhat started to lose its meaning. Though i would not call it misinformation, It so ambiguous it could mean just about anything.
  • gleamingsandsgleamingsands Posts: 306
    edited March 2016
    I think the time to start getting upset will be when there hasn't been any word and Oculus has been released for a month. Then all bets are off and they have a real responsibility to level with us on whatever the state of production is.
  • sutekiBsutekiB Posts: 1,069
    The term 'ramping up production' refers to the process of fulfilling the remaining orders pending the conclusion of the Pathfinder program (at a substantially increased rate). I know it's frustrating to be waiting to find out when your order will be shipped, but it's safe to assume that the Pathfinder program is in progress until its conclusion is announced. I'm sure they'd love to say 'we polished these things this week, these will be tweaked next week', but of course, this is confidential - reveling such things would help rivals, even if you tried to be vague.

    @xxann5 I still don't think of the Omni as a peripheral to an HMD. It's a PC peripheral, and so is an HMD, right? You can't have a full PC-based VR experience without an Omni, HMD, and speakers/headphones, plus a hand-held controller; in the same way that you can't have a full non-VR PC experience without a keyboard, mouse (or touchpad), monitor, and speakers/headphones. You wouldn't say the mouse is a peripheral to the keyboard, or vice versa, or to the monitor. They're all PC peripherals that make a certain kind of content work. I guess the reason people think that the HMD is a platform and anything attached to it is a peripheral, is because something doesn't seem to become 'VR' unless it's viewed through one. In my opinion though, VR is a sliding scale, and there is certainly a big jump when you add an HMD, but it is still just one component of the whole. The thing that is actually generating the virtual reality is the PC or smartphone; the rest is subjective. For instance, I feel like the HMD is a peripheral to the Omni! :smile:
    Community Manager at Virtuix
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
  • dildil Posts: 11
    @travis1409 @gleamingsands they can simply ramp up production in last week of June which is in Q2. :smiley:
  • xxann5xxann5 Posts: 593
    latest kickstarter update.
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1944625487/omni-move-naturally-in-your-favorite-game/posts/1515007
    Our plan is to successfully conclude the Pathfinder program this month.
    Not exactly a definitive date but at least its something.
  • KijutsuKijutsu Posts: 85
    One day my friend, one day.
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